How do CPS teachers keep getting a free pass from the public? (Chicago: credit, neighborhood)

[rparz]

Originally Posted by jman07

Don't be so dramatic. Here's your boneheaded argument...The teachers have to teach bad students, therefore the Union is infallible no matter what. You just posted an opinion that really didn't answer anything rather than an actual argument that addresses a complex issue. Show some intelligence and address specific points that were brought up. Why didn't you address them fighting to not allow teacher evaluations? Afraid to address the topics because maybe you don't have coherent arguments so you have to result to personal attacks over debate?

Assuming you received a better education than the 'standard Chicago Public schools' offer, you'd remember from science class that for an objective evaluation of data, you need to remove all variables other than you want to test. In this case 'teacher performance.'
So, we can start here:

Originally Posted by chet everett

If a better "path" were laid you that would have involved some mileposts that would have included a whole bunch of things including things like ironclad class size caps, policies that fostered a safe environment for all, special intensive classes for children that are lagging behind, real sanctions for children that do not have solid attendance and an evaluation system designed FIRST to improve performance not punitively deal with teachers with less stellar skills

Would you like to address any of these issues? Or just point fingers and blame the union, manipulate the facts in your favor because that's the easy way out?
Well, go preach to some other people without critical thinking skills. Hell, you should run for office in the city, you have a scapegoat.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by jman07

Why didn't you address them fighting to not allow teacher evaluations? Afraid to address the topics because maybe you don't have coherent arguments so you have to result to personal attacks over debate?

What in the world are you talking about? At NO point did CTU ask to "not allow teacher evaluations" - that's ludicrous. What was at issue during the strike was the how much importance to place on student test scores in teacher evaluation. Standardized tests were never intended to be used in teacher evaluations, and their current use is very problematic. CTU also didn't say it wanted student tests eliminated from teacher evaluations (by state law it can't be), they just felt that too much weight was being given to tests.

[jman07]

Originally Posted by rparz

Assuming you received a better education than the 'standard Chicago Public schools' offer, you'd remember from science class that for an objective evaluation of data, you need to remove all variables other than you want to test. In this case 'teacher performance.'
So, we can start here:




Would you like to address any of these issues? Or just point fingers and blame the union, manipulate the facts in your favor because that's the easy way out?
Well, go preach to some other people without critical thinking skills. Hell, you should run for office in the city, you have a scapegoat.

I would be glad to. First off, where was I ever trying to lay out a "better path"? My post was addressing the CTU not getting criticism for fighting the policies I stated. The CTU not getting criticism has nothing to do with the ideas you listed, and the ideas you listed are not mutually exclusive to teacher evaluations or charter schools.

Second, what facts were manipulated and what exact "blame" did I put on the union? I pointed out that they were the highest paid, worked the least amount of hours, fought charter schools, and fought evaluations, and it was our Mayors idea to expand the school day for the benefit of the children, not the CTU's.

[rparz]

It's pretty transparent that you've got an axe to grind with CTU and are doing your best to pin all the systemic failures of the CPS on them. That's so overly simplistic and wrong they even have a term for it 'fallacy of the single cause.'

Do they deserve some criticism, sure, but unless you fix a whole other host of problems, your plan won't be successful. CPS needs an overhaul from the top down, not some hodge-podge piecemeal that amounts to nothing more than screwing with the workers.
It's like getting upset that your trash hasn't been picked up, and being angry at the garbage man. He's the guy who is responsible for picking up your trash so it MUST be his fault. Never mind the blown up engineo because the mayor's budget cut out preventative maintenance services on the truck and the flat tire, we blame the Garbage man!

[linicx]

The problem isn't the teacher's or their union. When pension agreements were made the economy did not look like 1928. The ______ made the deal.

The real issue is education (not the teachers), and it falls squarely at the feet of the U.S. Dept. of Education that still schemes to this day to sell more books and dumb down America with goofy ideas that do not educate all equally. If it did, I would not be teaching my high school graduate CNA third grade math, spelling and English. She had to have an absymally ignorant teacher to not know the difference between collar and color.

Bad seeds breed ignorance. You cannot find all the answers to life's little problems in the back of the teacher's manual. Public schools should really take a page out of the home school book where everyday things/events can be used as a lesson.

What does the teacher have in his/her classroom that can be used as a life lesson not in the book? When I think of lower elementary I think of: chalk, blackboard, hinge, drawer, seat, window, paper, and ______?

[rparz]

Results-based solutions are hard and complex. It's easier to blame someone and absolve yourself of responsibility.

I'd love to make a wager on the outcomes of all these turnaround schools and charter schools. My wager is that the improvements are in the 10% range.
Yeah, I guess every bit helps, but unless you have a majority of students finishing high school at (or even near) grade level, you're not a success.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by williepotatoes

What's really needed is a way to fire about a 100,000 horse manure parents who don't monitor their children or the kids education.

This.

I did 3 hours + of homework a day/night, all 4 years of high school. CPS kids that I taught fell considerably short of that, IB students excepted.

No teacher in the world can magically impart an education to children who aren't in a position to receive it, it's like trying to pour water into a sealed can. Education is a process, not a product, and you get out what you put in. CPS Teachers do not get to pick and choose their students or their parents, so right off the bat there are issues with any kind of standardized assessments for them.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by williepotatoes

What's really needed is a way to fire about a 100,000 horse manure parents who don't monitor their children or the kids education.

This says it all.

[jman07]

So now were all basically admitting what no one wants to ever admit publically, that those CPS communities are beyond hopeless and have no chance. In a world where you need a college degree for any decent job, they can't even manage a basic high school or grade school on their own. Rather than admit the truth no one wants to, they point the finger at lack of money discrimination etc.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by jman07

So now were all basically admitting what no one wants to ever admit publically, that those CPS communities are beyond hopeless and have no chance. In a world where you need a college degree for any decent job, they can't even manage a basic high school or grade school on their own. Rather than admit the truth no one wants to, they point the finger at lack of money discrimination etc.

I admit it publically all the time.