Is $620/month too much for a HOA fee? (Chicago: HOA fees, loan)

[Vlajos]

Sounds pretty normal to me, especially if it's older and/or a high rise.

[Standard111]

That sounds very high to me, and unlike your mortgage interest and property taxes, can't be deducted from taxes.

This is, in part, why older highrises are often surprisingly cheap. There are some Mies Van de Rohe towers in Lincoln Park, right on the Park, with stunning views, and the prices are amazingly cheap. It's because of stuff like this.

Many people would prefer to pay more for something newer and then come out ahead with the annual tax deduction plus the stronger certainly that property values will be better maintained in newer construction.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Standard111

That sounds very high to me, and unlike your mortgage interest and property taxes, can't be deducted from taxes.

This is, in part, why older highrises are often surprisingly cheap. There are some Mies Van de Rohe towers in Lincoln Park, right on the Park, with stunning views, and the prices are amazingly cheap. It's because of stuff like this.

Many people would prefer to pay more for something newer and then come out ahead with the annual tax deduction plus the stronger certainly that property values will be better maintained in newer construction.

It's not high, it's normal for new high rises downtown.

[snoylekim]

Agreed , Even without a pool or a full bore gym, a high rise requires door/security staff, a management company ( too many units to self-manage) , and have large , complex systems for heating, cooling, and moving people from floor to ground to floor. These building always have an operating engineer and one or more maintenance staff members that are assigned at least half-time, and they are unionized for the most part. What the OP is quoting is in line with vertical higher density developments in Chicago.
An older building might have higher assessments if a good preventative maintenance /capital budget wasn't followed . Always pays to look at the reserves and finances carefully before jumping

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by snoylekim

Agreed , Even without a pool or a full bore gym, a high rise requires door/security staff, a management company ( too many units to self-manage) , and have large , complex systems for heating, cooling, and moving people from floor to ground to floor. These building always have an operating engineer and one or more maintenance staff members that are assigned at least half-time, and they are unionized for the most part. What the OP is quoting is in line with vertical higher density developments in Chicago.
An older building might have higher assessments if a good preventative maintenance /capital budget wasn't followed . Always pays to look at the reserves and finances carefully before jumping

Yep.

[jman07]

Originally Posted by snoylekim

Agreed , Even without a pool or a full bore gym, a high rise requires door/security staff, a management company ( too many units to self-manage) , and have large , complex systems for heating, cooling, and moving people from floor to ground to floor. These building always have an operating engineer and one or more maintenance staff members that are assigned at least half-time, and they are unionized for the most part. What the OP is quoting is in line with vertical higher density developments in Chicago.
An older building might have higher assessments if a good preventative maintenance /capital budget wasn't followed . Always pays to look at the reserves and finances carefully before jumping

I don't see how one doorman and maintenance guy can possibly add so much cost spread between 100's of people. In some cases thousands. Let's see. Doorman gets paid $20hr tops. 20*70hrs*4=$5600 a month. If you have 1000 tenants that comes out to $5.60 per owner per month for a door man.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by jman07

I don't see how one doorman and maintenance guy can possibly add so much cost spread between 100's of people. In some cases thousands. Let's see. Doorman gets paid $20hr tops. 20*70hrs*4=$5600 a month. If you have 1000 tenants that comes out to $5.60 per owner per month for a door man.

I am not aware of any 1000 unit buildings. And that is one job, there are usually quite a few employees. Why are you ignoring repairs, maintenance, cable, heat, etc.

[jman07]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I am not aware of any 1000 unit buildings. And that is one job, there are usually quite a few employees. Why are you ignoring repairs, maintenance, cable, heat, etc.

Well you quoted "staff." I discussed cable and heat in an earlier post. Those probably account for $200 tops. All your doing is generalizing. Break down the costs line by line expert.

Trump tower..Aqua.....1000+?

[snoylekim]

We have 220ish Unit building - Our operating budget is about 1.1 MM/ year .. The personnel costs are for 4 door/security, 1 operating engineer, 1 maintenance engineer . We also cover the salary for the full time Condo manager, plus the management fee. We have a yearly maintenance contract for the 2 elevators, and yearly maintenance expense for the Chiller and Boilers for the HVAC. We have landscaping fees, a building decorating budget, and a budget to maintain the exercise room . Then there's the yearly cable and gas fee , plus the common area electric bill . There are also mandated structural inspections that are not free. There's the fee for garbage and water ( we don't get City Garbage service -we pay a private firm, with a partial rebate from the City) ..There's the legal expense, the building common insurance ..
Finally , an annual contribution to our reserves .

I haven't figured out what my monthly non-deductible output would be to maintain a SFH of equivalent value would be, but I'm betting it's a lot closer to my current assessment than one would think .

[emathias]

Originally Posted by jman07

I don't see how one doorman and maintenance guy can possibly add so much cost spread between 100's of people. In some cases thousands. Let's see. Doorman gets paid $20hr tops. 20*70hrs*4=$5600 a month. If you have 1000 tenants that comes out to $5.60 per owner per month for a door man.

If it's a 24-hour doorman, you're looking at 5-6 people to cover the shifts. Even if you go straight hourly with zero benefits (and good buildings often do provide some benefits to long-term doormen) at $15/hour, you're looking at $131,000/year ($15*24*7*52). You'd need at least 5 guys to cover shifts and vacation and sick days, etc. Say you salaried them at $35k each, that's $175,000. Plus FICA matches, that's another $13,000, plus if you do offer minimal benefits, that's probably another $25,000. Easily over $200,000/year to have a 24-hour doorman in a high-service building, and that doesn't include other harder-to-quantify costs, like what it costs to keep their space, etc.

In a 400-unit building, $200k/year is $42/month, minimum. And remember, $200k is actually fairly conservative for a 24-hour doorman. It could fairly easily hit $300k/year. A 200-unit building spending $300k/year is spending $125/month on a doorman per unit.

But what really hits assessments the hardest is long-term maintenance of high-rises. Those costs sneak up on a lot of associations. Replacing elevators in expensive. Replacing windows is expensive. Fixing any significant problem with the exterior is expensive. Maintaining the plumbing (including sprinkler and other safety systems) is expensive. All of that can add up, and add up fast.