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Robert9, Well we certainly HAVE seen vigils and gatherings for killings in the community, especially when it involves a child. NO CHILD should be afraid to play in their own neighborhood!
It is a shame that the thought of potential children dying in cross fire NEVER crosses the minds of the gangbangers. A REAL shame!
Every time a Black gangbanger is shooting at another Black gangbanger, you can't tell me that they are proponents for BLACK LIVES MATTER... TO say so would be hypocrisy. The words and the actions do not match.
I AM for Black Lives Matter in the sense that I believe ALL lives matter!
A contributor to many innocent bystanders being killed today is that Chicago has demolished so many properties and even entire blocks on the south and west sides without rebuilding that they've created vast urban prairies. There's open fields now where people can shoot unobstrcuted and bullets travel uninterrupted for greater distances. These obviously give people opportunities to shoot at a target from streets away as there's no obstacles. It's like navagting an open field in Vietnam.
The gang violence in Chicago is too long standing and deeply ingrained in the culture that it's not impacted by a modern social consciousness movement. Black Disciples, Stones, G.D.'s and Vice Lords aren't the creators of Black Lives Matters which is late to the party so to hold them accountable for not adhering to that concept is disingenuous. They are fighting on different fronts. The ideology, marches and protests of the Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, Martin Luther King or the NAACP were all carried out in Chicago while the gangs slaughtered eachother. Black Lives Matter is just another iteration.
Black Lives Matters should be protesting the gangs for their daily killings of fellow black people which seems like the most rational approach to truly reforming society.
Yep. Chicago's highly desirable core will clean-up nice again like a shiney penny.
-will the city's issues and the states go away? No.
- will Chicago see nice growth overall soon? No.
- will Chicago survive as it has always done? Of course and in a future decade the Midwest may boom again. Irrevalant if I live to see it. I lived to see downtown Chicago renew nicely and look forward to a yet to schedule visit again.
Time will tell if all looted or closed by pandemic stores all reopen, restore and thrive as before. Most will. Retail as a whole though is forever a changing and I fear more flagship large stores will be a dinosaur of the past.
I was surprised the NYC 5th Ave Macy's flagship store was also looted and others on the iconic street . Yesterday they added steel wire like barbed wire. I was always glad Chicago did not have all the steel gating and shutters on storefronts when closed like NYC kept. My sunday visits had me feel it was not Manhattan and Midtown seeing them. Add the trash bags on sidewalks too. But it was New York. Downtown Chicago would never had had a out for that and it would have been a blemish.
You sound a little contradictory here. Was it not an influx of tech/finance bros keeping the city's population relatively stable the past several years? Now you're saying it doesn't matter if they leave?
Also the city's population is down a good million from its peak...nobody came to replace hem.
You are saying it yourself, "An influx of tech/finance bros stabalized the population".. These people balanced out the black flight from a city that is failing them so they seek new opportunity in other cities. That is the sort of ebb & flow I'm speaking of. Over the coming decades the south and west sides will be rebuilt and transformed. For who and how many people is largely up to the nation's/city's policies and priorities. The U.S./Chicago isn't actively providing an environment that encourages mass immigration ala Toronto which was responsible for that peak population you speak of.
Anyways, I said if "some" tech workers leave, you are saying "all"...All tech workers aren't going to exodus the city as is being implied. I'm saying if radical anti-urban sentiments motivates a percentage of tech workers to move away and work from home in a suburb there will be other companies that will eventually occupy the office spaces and the homes they leave behind in Wicker Park, Ravenswood, Lakeview, Lincoln Park, the Gold Coast & West Loop aren't exactly going to plummett in price or desireability anytime soon.
If every tech and finance job suddenly left the city then yes obviously it would cause chaos like it would anywhere. My point is steel manufacturing used to be a major contributor to Chicago's economy that provided tens of thousands of living wage jobs. While those jobs weren't replaced with like for like opportunity over time the city has sustained the losses while other sectors rose and effectively off-set much of the damage. Chcago has the most diverse economy in the nation where no sector is more than 14% of GDP.
As for the population being a million from it's peak and nobody coming to replace them you are conflating a whole series of issues over 70 years. From immigration laws to populations moving west, restrictive zoning to globalization and a million in-between. I'm talking about for every Chad & Trixie that moves to the suburbs for a bigger home with a yard and "better" schools or the family that is fed up with property taxes there's no shortage of people wanting to experience life in the city. This is a long standing cycle of life in Chicago.
Over the next 70 year period Chicago could be a city of 5 million for all we know with some drastic reforms or shifts in policy. The point is Chicago will always be a desireable lakefront city that dominates it's region with all walks of life wanting to experience it's culture, history and opportunity. There was a Chicago before tech and there would be one after. New York has been in the doldrums and back again many times as well. They are just much more proactive in retaining and expanding it's global relevance and inclusiveness.
You are saying it yourself, "An influx of tech/finance bros stabalized the population".. These people balanced out the black flight from a city that is failing them so they seek new opportunity in other cities. That is the sort of ebb & flow I'm speaking of. Over the coming decades the south and west sides will be rebuilt and transformed. For who and how many people is largely up to the nation's/city's policies and priorities. The U.S./Chicago isn't actively providing an environment that encourages mass immigration ala Toronto which was responsible for that peak population you speak of.
Anyways, I said if "some" tech workers leave, you are saying "all"...All tech workers aren't going to exodus the city as is being implied. I'm saying if radical anti-urban sentiments motivates a percentage of tech workers to move away and work from home in a suburb there will be other companies that will eventually occupy the office spaces and the homes they leave behind in Wicker Park, Ravenswood, Lakeview, Lincoln Park, the Gold Coast & West Loop aren't exactly going to plummett in price or desireability anytime soon.
If every tech and finance job suddenly left the city then yes obviously it would cause chaos like it would anywhere. My point is steel manufacturing used to be a major contributor to Chicago's economy that provided tens of thousands of living wage jobs. While those jobs weren't replaced with like for like opportunity over time the city has sustained the losses while other sectors rose and effectively off-set much of the damage. Chcago has the most diverse economy in the nation where no sector is more than 14% of GDP.
As for the population being a million from it's peak and nobody coming to replace them you are conflating a whole series of issues over 70 years. From immigration laws to populations moving west, restrictive zoning to globalization and a million in-between. I'm talking about for every Chad & Trixie that moves to the suburbs for a bigger home with a yard and "better" schools or the family that is fed up with property taxes there's no shortage of people wanting to experience life in the city. This is a long standing cycle of life in Chicago.
Over the next 70 year period Chicago could be a city of 5 million for all we know with some drastic reforms or shifts in policy. The point is Chicago will always be a desireable lakefront city that dominates it's region with all walks of life wanting to experience it's culture, history and opportunity. There was a Chicago before tech and there would be one after. New York has been in the doldrums and back again many times as well. They are just much more proactive in retaining and expanding it's global relevance and inclusiveness.
THanks for the rational post. There haven't been very many sane posts on the Chicago board recently..
You are saying it yourself, "An influx of tech/finance bros stabalized the population".. These people balanced out the black flight from a city that is failing them so they seek new opportunity in other cities. That is the sort of ebb & flow I'm speaking of. Over the coming decades the south and west sides will be rebuilt and transformed. For who and how many people is largely up to the nation's/city's policies and priorities. The U.S./Chicago isn't actively providing an environment that encourages mass immigration ala Toronto which was responsible for that peak population you speak of.
Anyways, I said if "some" tech workers leave, you are saying "all"...All tech workers aren't going to exodus the city as is being implied. I'm saying if radical anti-urban sentiments motivates a percentage of tech workers to move away and work from home in a suburb there will be other companies that will eventually occupy the office spaces and the homes they leave behind in Wicker Park, Ravenswood, Lakeview, Lincoln Park, the Gold Coast & West Loop aren't exactly going to plummett in price or desireability anytime soon.
If every tech and finance job suddenly left the city then yes obviously it would cause chaos like it would anywhere. My point is steel manufacturing used to be a major contributor to Chicago's economy that provided tens of thousands of living wage jobs. While those jobs weren't replaced with like for like opportunity over time the city has sustained the losses while other sectors rose and effectively off-set much of the damage. Chcago has the most diverse economy in the nation where no sector is more than 14% of GDP.
As for the population being a million from it's peak and nobody coming to replace them you are conflating a whole series of issues over 70 years. From immigration laws to populations moving west, restrictive zoning to globalization and a million in-between. I'm talking about for every Chad & Trixie that moves to the suburbs for a bigger home with a yard and "better" schools or the family that is fed up with property taxes there's no shortage of people wanting to experience life in the city. This is a long standing cycle of life in Chicago.
Over the next 70 year period Chicago could be a city of 5 million for all we know with some drastic reforms or shifts in policy. The point is Chicago will always be a desireable lakefront city that dominates it's region with all walks of life wanting to experience it's culture, history and opportunity. There was a Chicago before tech and there would be one after. New York has been in the doldrums and back again many times as well. They are just much more proactive in retaining and expanding it's global relevance and inclusiveness.
I never said they'd all leave either my guy, just asking a question. Now you've raised another...how do you know the south and west sides will revitalize? You're making a lot of predictions that seem to be based on wishful thinking.
Also regarding the population peak...yes I'm well aware the decline to the current number is due to a multitude of factors. Not sure how that changes the end result, just because it wasn't a singular reason like you're wrongfully assuming that I implied.
For the record I love Chicago and agree it is a desirable place with lasting appeal. I also enjoy critical thinking and candid discussion, which many of you seem to think are mutually exclusive with love for the city. I expect this on subs like DC but Chi should be above the boosterism...as many of you would agree, the city doesn't need it.
You are saying it yourself, "An influx of tech/finance bros stabalized the population".. These people balanced out the black flight from a city that is failing them so they seek new opportunity in other cities. That is the sort of ebb & flow I'm speaking of. Over the coming decades the south and west sides will be rebuilt and transformed. For who and how many people is largely up to the nation's/city's policies and priorities. The U.S./Chicago isn't actively providing an environment that encourages mass immigration ala Toronto which was responsible for that peak population you speak of.
Anyways, I said if "some" tech workers leave, you are saying "all"...All tech workers aren't going to exodus the city as is being implied. I'm saying if radical anti-urban sentiments motivates a percentage of tech workers to move away and work from home in a suburb there will be other companies that will eventually occupy the office spaces and the homes they leave behind in Wicker Park, Ravenswood, Lakeview, Lincoln Park, the Gold Coast & West Loop aren't exactly going to plummett in price or desireability anytime soon.
If every tech and finance job suddenly left the city then yes obviously it would cause chaos like it would anywhere. My point is steel manufacturing used to be a major contributor to Chicago's economy that provided tens of thousands of living wage jobs. While those jobs weren't replaced with like for like opportunity over time the city has sustained the losses while other sectors rose and effectively off-set much of the damage. Chcago has the most diverse economy in the nation where no sector is more than 14% of GDP.
As for the population being a million from it's peak and nobody coming to replace them you are conflating a whole series of issues over 70 years. From immigration laws to populations moving west, restrictive zoning to globalization and a million in-between. I'm talking about for every Chad & Trixie that moves to the suburbs for a bigger home with a yard and "better" schools or the family that is fed up with property taxes there's no shortage of people wanting to experience life in the city. This is a long standing cycle of life in Chicago.
Over the next 70 year period Chicago could be a city of 5 million for all we know with some drastic reforms or shifts in policy. The point is Chicago will always be a desireable lakefront city that dominates it's region with all walks of life wanting to experience it's culture, history and opportunity. There was a Chicago before tech and there would be one after. New York has been in the doldrums and back again many times as well. They are just much more proactive in retaining and expanding it's global relevance and inclusiveness.
You are forgetting one very important aspect in an otherwise rational post: the DEBT. Chicago's debt, Cook County's Debt, the various township's debt, and Illinois's debt. Barely manageable right now, with borrowing costs being at record lows, and a booming economy. Tens of thousands of dollars of debt for every man, woman, and child who moves into the city. And still growing. Who wants to move into that?
Now, you may say that the U.S. is in deep debt as well, but they have the luxury of being able to print dollars, Illinois and Chicago do not. They will be able to continue borrowing as long as investors feel the premium is worth the risk. That may not last forever, and then the hammer falls. Hard. And, the events of the last three months, and even more so, the last five days, sure have taken the luster off living in ANY densely-packed, inclusive, progressive city, let alone one that is teetering on bankruptcy. What is the solution to this caveat?
You are forgetting one very important aspect in an otherwise rational post: the DEBT. Chicago's debt, Cook County's Debt, the various township's debt, and Illinois's debt. Barely manageable right now, with borrowing costs being at record lows, and a booming economy. Tens of thousands of dollars of debt for every man, woman, and child who moves into the city. And still growing. Who wants to move into that?
Now, you may say that the U.S. is in deep debt as well, but they have the luxury of being able to print dollars, Illinois and Chicago do not. They will be able to continue borrowing as long as investors feel the premium is worth the risk. That may not last forever, and then the hammer falls. Hard. And, the events of the last three months, and even more so, the last five days, sure have taken the luster off living in ANY densely-packed, inclusive, progressive city, let alone one that is teetering on bankruptcy. What is the solution to this caveat?
Leave the city to live.
That’s what the choice boils down too.
You are forgetting one very important aspect in an otherwise rational post: the DEBT. Chicago's debt, Cook County's Debt, the various township's debt, and Illinois's debt. Barely manageable right now, with borrowing costs being at record lows, and a booming economy. Tens of thousands of dollars of debt for every man, woman, and child who moves into the city. And still growing. Who wants to move into that?
Now, you may say that the U.S. is in deep debt as well, but they have the luxury of being able to print dollars, Illinois and Chicago do not. They will be able to continue borrowing as long as investors feel the premium is worth the risk. That may not last forever, and then the hammer falls. Hard. And, the events of the last three months, and even more so, the last five days, sure have taken the luster off living in ANY densely-packed, inclusive, progressive city, let alone one that is teetering on bankruptcy. What is the solution to this caveat?
The IL government debt is what, $64B? The government/Fed will be able to take care of that just fine, $5T was just made in the form of stimulus, 64B is very small relative to that. And honestly, the entire nation jacked up on debt. Honestly the whole economy runs on debt. Chicago is honestly not much different from any other major city in the U.S. when it comes to debt. The Fed has stated that they wouldn't be against bailing out states/cities. And it wouldn't surprise me if they bailed out Illinois, and other states too.
Think about how much a trillion is. It's 1,000 x 1 billion. 64 B's is truly measly when you look at it that way. And Illinois, will in no way shape or form be the only state being bailed out.
You write off the U.S. debt, but it is a definite reality that this country today thrives off of debt. Without it the economy would totally collapse. Yes, including the economy of Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, Iowa, or wherever else you moved to where you think you are now totally absolved of debt problems.
I love how people trash the debt of places like California, New Jersey, and Illinois, yet once they move to another state, they act like they escaped scott-free. A lot of these people also gladly accept things like the $1,200 stimulus check, which was created from.... what? Oh yeah, *debt*. They also accept things like unemployment, food stamps, and much more. And that's not even bringing up personal debt obligations, car loans, student loans, etc. Not all, but there are absolutely no shortage of these right leaning people with this hypocrisy.
Chicago is a debt filled city, I won't argue there. But so is every other major city in the country, as well as the country itself. And I highly doubt the Fed/Government will allow such a large and crucial economy such as Chicago/Illinois to fail, same with LA/SF/California, NYC/NY, etc.
Last edited by CCrest182; 06-03-2020 at 08:50 PM..
The IL government debt is what, $64B? The government/Fed will be able to take care of that just fine, $5T was just made in the form of stimulus, 64B is very small relative to that. And honestly, the entire nation jacked up on debt. Honestly the whole economy runs on debt. Chicago is honestly not much different from any other major city in the U.S. when it comes to debt. The Fed has stated that they wouldn't be against bailing out states/cities. And it wouldn't surprise me if they bailed out Illinois, and other states too.
Think about how much a trillion is. It's 1,000 x 1 billion. 64 B's is truly measly when you look at it that way. And Illinois, will in no way shape or form be the only state being bailed out.
You write off the U.S. debt, but it is a definite reality that this country today thrives off of debt. Without it the economy would totally collapse. Yes, including the economy of Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, Iowa, or wherever else you moved to where you think you are now totally absolved of debt problems.
I love how people trash the debt of places like California, New Jersey, and Illinois, yet once they move to another state, they act like they escaped scott-free. A lot of these people also gladly accept things like the $1,200 stimulus check, which was created from.... what? Oh yeah, *debt*. They also accept things like unemployment, food stamps, and much more. And that's not even bringing up personal debt obligations, car loans, student loans, etc. Not all, but there are absolutely no shortage of these right leaning people with this hypocrisy.
Chicago is a debt filled city, I won't argue there. But so is every other major city in the country, as well as the country itself. And I highly doubt the Fed/Government will allow such a large and crucial economy such as Chicago/Illinois to fail, same with LA/SF/California, NYC/NY, etc.
Other than being completely wrong with all your facts, that was a great reply, thank you.
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I was always glad Chicago did not have all the steel gating and shutters on storefronts when closed like NYC kept. My sunday visits had me feel it was not Manhattan and Midtown seeing them. Add the trash bags on sidewalks too. But it was New York. Downtown Chicago would never had had a out for that and it would have been a blemish.
