Nice Job Chicago! (Blue Island, Willow Springs: purchasing, law, legally)

[Robert9]

Originally Posted by personone

Yup. In the 80s and 90s, the one thing Chicago had going for it (it feels weird to phrase it that way), is that NYC and LA had crime numbers that were sky high (and had so much media attention around the crack pandemic and gang culture, respectively). Also, DC in the 90s was known as the murder capital, because its crime "rate" was so high.

So while Chicago was not a crime-free city by any means, there were several other cities that kind of took the spotlight away from it through the 80s-90s. Plus, social media was non-existent then, so news and reputation did not spread as easily.

Now Chicago is on its own.

That is a very good point.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by personone

Yup. In the 80s and 90s, the one thing Chicago had going for it (it feels weird to phrase it that way), is that NYC and LA had crime numbers that were sky high (and had so much media attention around the crack pandemic and gang culture, respectively). Also, DC in the 90s was known as the murder capital, because its crime "rate" was so high.

So while Chicago was not a crime-free city by any means, there were several other cities that kind of took the spotlight away from it through the 80s-90s. Plus, social media was non-existent then, so news and reputation did not spread as easily.

Now Chicago is on its own.

Also, sometime in between here and there (I think when a certain somebody became president) Chicago became a political football for alt-right, um, discourse.

Now people will share shooting wrapup stories from a Fourth of July weekend on Facebook, but it might be this year's or last year's or the year's before because nobody reads datelines, they just share stuff.

[personone]

Originally Posted by jfre81

Also, sometime in between here and there (I think when a certain somebody became president) Chicago became a political football for alt-right, um, discourse.

Now people will share shooting wrapup stories from a Fourth of July weekend on Facebook, but it might be this year's or last year's or the year's before because nobody reads datelines, they just share stuff.

Right, but my point is that even if there are nefarious motives, nobody is magically creating the 100 shootings, 20 dead numbers that pop up every few weekends in the summer.

It’s not fair and I don’t agree with it, but if Chicago did not have these numbers, the media and people that may have nefarious motives, would not have anything negative to report on regardless of their dislike for “a certain somebody [who] became president.”

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by personone

Right, but my point is that even if there are nefarious motives, nobody is magically creating the 100 shootings, 20 dead numbers that pop up every few weekends in the summer.

It’s not fair and I don’t agree with it, but if Chicago did not have these numbers, the media and people that may have nefarious motives, would not have anything negative to report on regardless of their dislike for “a certain somebody [who] became president.”

I don't see so many people who don't live in/have never been to etc. any of the cities I'm about to name here share articles on social media about the same stuff in St. Louis, Detroit or Baltimore the way they do with Chicago. Maybe you have an alternate explanation for that?

[personone]

Originally Posted by jfre81

I don't see so many people who don't live in/have never been to etc. any of the cities I'm about to name here share articles on social media about the same stuff in St. Louis, Detroit or Baltimore the way they do with Chicago. Maybe you have an alternate explanation for that?

Yes, I agree. I've mentioned this before in earlier threads that those other cities (Baltimore, Detroit, St. Louis) are so much smaller that they can't produce TOTAL numbers that compare to Chicago.

All 3 of these cities have crime RATES that are much worse than Chicago. But they will never have 100 shootings in one weekend because they are less than 1/3 the size of Chicago. This is evident for those of us who live here. As I have mentioned, I live on the North Side and it is one of the safest and most beautiful neighborhoods I've ever lived in. I have lived in Baltimore before, and have felt uneasy even in downtown Baltimore. Never have felt that lack of safety in Chicago before.

Unfortunately, it is the TOTAL NUMBERS that make headlines and build negative reputations (and I agree that it may not be fair, but that is the way it is). You would think people would understand rates, but it is harder to make a headline using rates. If Baltimore has 20 shootings in one weekend, that would be equivalent or maybe even greater than Chicago's 100 shootings per person, but it's hard to make a national headline that will promulgate across nationally or internationally based on rates.

If the media sees that Baltimore had 20 shootings in one weekend and Chicago had 100 shootings, what number do you think the media will run with (even though if you were to break it down by "rate," Baltimore would likely have the higher rate). That is what the answer to your question is.

And to clarify; I am not saying that this is fair to do. I'm just saying that this is what is hurting Chicago's image. NYC and LA are both bigger in population than Chicago and do not put up the weekend TOTAL numbers that Chicago consistently does, so we can't completely hide behind our size as an excuse.

Also, the Uber Drivers and bar tenders I interacted with in San Francisco, San Jose, Charlotte, and Orlando while travelling for work over the last few years, genuinely seemed like nice people (they had no nefarious motives in asking, "is it really that bad/violent out there?"). Like I said, fair or not, it is the reputation that Chicago has and the only way to break it is to go years without having these weekend numbers (100 shot, 20 fatal). If we do that, the people with nefarious motives will not have the ammunition to promulgate the negative image.

Also St. Louis and even Detroit do not have the same negative national/international reputation, despite some negative media attention; namely because they do not have the same stature as Chicago. National and international media will not really go out of their way to report as much on these cities because they are much smaller and do not have the same national prominence as Chicago.

[StopAtWilloughby]

I have been saying for 2 decades now the drug war is a failure. Drug addiction is a health issue, not a criminal issue - until recently I accepted that this position was something radical that would never be enacted. Watching the BLM movement I actually grasped the disaster that this policy has had on certain communities including gang related murders. In an attempt to stop violence, policing increases thereby increasing the odds that you are criminally arrested for a drug related offense thereby improving the chances that you are unemployable. No wonder they hate the police - I would too if I was pulled over constantly. Put daddy in jail, and the cycle begins, with son on the streets - take it away, you have less opportunity to become a criminal. I love Chicago, always have - I hope those in charge can right the ship without taking down every monument.

[personone]

Originally Posted by StopAtWilloughby

I have been saying for 2 decades now the drug war is a failure. Drug addiction is a health issue, not a criminal issue - until recently I accepted that this position was something radical that would never be enacted. Watching the BLM movement I actually grasped the disaster that this policy has had on certain communities including gang related murders. In an attempt to stop violence, policing increases thereby increasing the odds that you are criminally arrested for a drug related offense thereby improving the chances that you are unemployable. No wonder they hate the police - I would too if I was pulled over constantly. Put daddy in jail, and the cycle begins, with son on the streets - take it away, you have less opportunity to become a criminal. I love Chicago, always have - I hope those in charge can right the ship without taking down every monument.

All good points and well-said. Although the question we all have, is why is this worse in Chicago? NYC and LA are much bigger cities (in terms of population) who deal with the same problems. Why have the violent crime numbers in Chicago been so much worse than in NYC and LA who deal with these same drug-related problems. NYC was the epicenter of the crack-cocaine war in the 90s. How did they turn it around and have less violent crimes, despite being much larger, population-wise?

[Master Jay]

personone, what a GREAT question. I've worked in the jail system for 10 years. And I am really trying to ponder this one!!!

StopAtWilloughby, as personone said, you added a very fine comment!

[StopAtWilloughby]

Thank you for the reply. I will offer my opinion - different era's, different tactics, different logistics and money. Compton used to be rough - I say that because I watch a lot of black movies - not from experience. Traffic forces one into neighborhoods in LA after it becomes unbearable and their entertainment market demands that you be present. NYC had a different approach, a harsh approach but it worked with stop & frisk - ultimately money makes problems go away. NYC & LA are much wealthier than Chicago - I see lots of money in Chicago but not to the scale of the coasts. Chicago is the beacon of the Midwest - a city to be proud of - hard handed tactics would do better here with serious addressing of the concerns of the poor in conjunction. Throwing people in jail doesn't work so you might need to national guard it during the transition while providing services until the community stabilizes which can be done and I would bag the drug war, communities that are impacted by it already are - throwing them in jail doesn't do any good. I think many on the right would welcome a plan and strategy to fix these issues even if it means money out of their own pocket - they aren't racists regardless of what our politicians want you to believe. And now I have to come clean - my real motivation for commenting here is selfish - I like Lem's, and as a white man, I am wondering if I can go back but I sure hope so.

[jmgg]

Originally Posted by personone

All good points and well-said. Although the question we all have, is why is this worse in Chicago? NYC and LA are much bigger cities (in terms of population) who deal with the same problems. Why have the violent crime numbers in Chicago been so much worse than in NYC and LA who deal with these same drug-related problems. NYC was the epicenter of the crack-cocaine war in the 90s. How did they turn it around and have less violent crimes, despite being much larger, population-wise?

Simple AND ACCURATE answer, was the policies of Mayor Giuliani, that have all but been eliminated by the idiot De Blasio. Giuliani wasn't coddling the violent criminals, he was arresting them and getting them off the streets. Much of his success was getting the guns out of the hands of known criminals.

Every major city with a spiking crime wave needs a Giuliani type leader. Get the drug dealers, pimps, mobsters, and gangbangers out of law abiding citizens neighborhoods and schools.

When it comes to drug USERS (not dealers), get more programs to help them instead of right away throwing them in prison. Don't instantly turn them into felons. I agree with StopAtWilloughby's assessment that our drug policies don't work. It IS more of a health issue than a criminal one. While doing this there still should be a point where using does become a felony after many many attempts are made to help the user.