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Old 06-20-2010, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,976 posts, read 22,156,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaisj View Post
I have always had a lot of faith in God and the scripture that He has provided. I have been taught not to argue with the bible and that it should be taken literally. I have lately been trying to reach out to Him more by reading His word and praying. Remembering to glorify him throughout the day. As I am doing this, I feel that my eyes are opening and I am able to see a wider spectrum of things.
You're no different from anybody else. Most people basically start out accepting whatever they've been taught by their parents and at church. It's only when we start to question things we "know" in light of some of the new things we're exposed to that we realize that maybe some of what we "know" is not quite accurate. I think it's important that we embrace all of the new knowledge we get while holding fast to our basic faith that God is the creator of our universe. It's not necessary to reject God in favor of science. We don't have to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Quote:
I am sorry, I will just get to the point. My husband has just graduated as a biologist and I helped him with a paper on evolution. My job was to study the social aspects of Charles Darwin's life. (I am a sociology major) During my research, I found an article about the Catholic church admitting that they altered the book of Genesis to show that the world was created in 7 days. I have been praying and thinking and reading scripture trying to understand the reasons for this.
I am not Catholic but I know that they have had a large influence in Chistianity today. I was disturbed and hurt after reading this article but at the same time I was relieved because this has been an issue in my marriage. I understand evolution but I have always BELIEVED in Genesis.
My faith has never been shaken this way. Please share your thoughts and help me to understand. Is it possible that evolution is real and that it is God's hand upon it?
I once read a reply to a letter to the editor in my town's local newspaper that I cut out because it made so much sense to me. I'm going to post it in hopes that it may help you resolve some of the issues you've encountered recently. Here it is:

In response to much of the rhetoric we have seen lately concerning creation and evolution, I don't understand why it is so difficult for some people to believe that God is the greatest scientist in the universe but that He could not explain some of His high-tech processes to people who thought a fig leaf was high tech. Even if He could show Adam the whole truth, how could Adam write that down in terms that the rest of the world would understand without a few thousand years of education?

How do you explain to your children how a gasoline engine works or where rain comes from? Is it possible that you answer this never-ending flow of curiosity with 'not quite accurate answers' which are in terms your children will understand?

When God told Adam that he was created from the dust in one day, is it not possible that this answer was His 'not totally accurate explanation' in terms that Adam would understand? How would you explain genetics and millenniums to a man whose first and greatest creation was disposable underwear harvested from the same tree his food was harvested from?

God didn't just give us a body; He gave us a brain and with that, a fair
share of curiosity. He knew that knowledge is an eternal progression so He gave us the tools need to eternally ask and learn the answers to all of life's questions. Line upon line and precept upon precept.

I think it is reasonable to assume that the Creator of the laws of the universe must also be His nature live by the laws He has set for us. If not, then He would not have commanded us to 'Become as I am.' If you doubt this, then I challenge you to explain microscopic living organisms or genetic bluepinrts to your 5-year-old. No short cuts, though, just the science.

My belief is that when science and religion appear to be at odds with each other, it is because we simply don't have all the facts. God hasn't yet revealed all of His secrets to us and science hasn't yet discovered a great many things. When all is said and done, I believe that they will mesh perfectly and that all of the issues we run into now, such as the age of the earth and the evolution of the various lifeforms here on the earth, will be resolved to our satisfaction. We know that God made the world and created all life on it. We just don't know exactly how or how long it took Him. Furthermore, we don't need to know. Our salvation certainly doesn't hinge on an understanding of these things. As a noted Christian scientist once said, "Animals seem pretty wonderful to me. I'd be content to discover that I share a common heritage with them, so long as God is at the controls."
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,680,231 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
You're no different from anybody else. Most people basically start out accepting whatever they've been taught by their parents and at church. It's only when we start to question things we "know" in light of some of the new things we're exposed to that we realize that maybe some of what we "know" is not quite accurate. I think it's important that we embrace all of the new knowledge we get while holding fast to our basic faith that God is the creator of our universe. It's not necessary to reject God in favor of science. We don't have to throw out the baby with the bath water.

I once read a reply to a letter to the editor in my town's local newspaper that I cut out because it made so much sense to me. I'm going to post it in hopes that it may help you resolve some of the issues you've encountered recently. Here it is:

In response to much of the rhetoric we have seen lately concerning creation and evolution, I don't understand why it is so difficult for some people to believe that God is the greatest scientist in the universe but that He could not explain some of His high-tech processes to people who thought a fig leaf was high tech. Even if He could show Adam the whole truth, how could Adam write that down in terms that the rest of the world would understand without a few thousand years of education?

How do you explain to your children how a gasoline engine works or where rain comes from? Is it possible that you answer this never-ending flow of curiosity with 'not quite accurate answers' which are in terms your children will understand?

When God told Adam that he was created from the dust in one day, is it not possible that this answer was His 'not totally accurate explanation' in terms that Adam would understand? How would you explain genetics and millenniums to a man whose first and greatest creation was disposable underwear harvested from the same tree his food was harvested from?

God didn't just give us a body; He gave us a brain and with that, a fair
share of curiosity. He knew that knowledge is an eternal progression so He gave us the tools need to eternally ask and learn the answers to all of life's questions. Line upon line and precept upon precept.

I think it is reasonable to assume that the Creator of the laws of the universe must also be His nature live by the laws He has set for us. If not, then He would not have commanded us to 'Become as I am.' If you doubt this, then I challenge you to explain microscopic living organisms or genetic bluepinrts to your 5-year-old. No short cuts, though, just the science.

My belief is that when science and religion appear to be at odds with each other, it is because we simply don't have all the facts. God hasn't yet revealed all of His secrets to us and science hasn't yet discovered a great many things. When all is said and done, I believe that they will mesh perfectly and that all of the issues we run into now, such as the age of the earth and the evolution of the various lifeforms here on the earth, will be resolved to our satisfaction. We know that God made the world and created all life on it. We just don't know exactly how or how long it took Him. Furthermore, we don't need to know. Our salvation certainly doesn't hinge on an understanding of these things. As a noted Christian scientist once said, "Animals seem pretty wonderful to me. I'd be content to discover that I share a common heritage with them, so long as God is at the controls."
Excellent~ Thanks for sharing. I will try to rep you... if I'm not outta reps that is.
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:57 PM
 
528 posts, read 686,170 times
Reputation: 250
Default Past Finding Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Me too. God's ways are past finding out! Once I was watching a film in a science class about all the great scientific discoveries of man, and I heard an inner voice speak to me and say, "I revealed these great secrets of math and science to man." And I thought - yes, Lord, you sure must have, otherwise I just don't think the mysteries of science and math would have been unlocked without your divine providence."

Science always leaves me more in awe of Him.

Heartsong
I too believe Gods ways are past finding out. That is to say I believe God has revealed things to us in His word, but He has not revealed ALL things. I also believe God is always speaking, teaching, leading, and guiding us. I think He speaks in everything. And I also believe as time grows on He is speaking louder & clearer, but we (humans) are not always listening. Its funny because when I try to share my thoughts with my fellow "church" friends arguments & debates insue & really there is no need. What I think is my opinion. What I think God is saying, and what I think God is saying to me. No one has to agree with it. Its just my belief. At any rate I just wanted to say.
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:58 PM
 
8,111 posts, read 7,084,708 times
Reputation: 1434
See the theory of Evolution has never been proven and it is therefor just a theory....... Just as Creation is just a theory Jesus has proven that he is capable of Creating flesh in the earth and giving life to lifeless beings, but not in a scientific arena, because if God proves himself to the world than the persecution against believers would be overwhelming. And God would not risk it......Many believers of Jesus believe in the seven solar day creation , and other believers believe in the older earth creation but the Lord God is divine selection and not natural selections as the Evolutionist believe....Me I see the debate has become more of a strife and does little in the Great Commision of Speading the Gospel thoughout the world.....I see the teaching should be more to the Adam was the first man to have a relationship with the Lord God and the purpose of the family of God is proven by this story in Genesis
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,769,273 times
Reputation: 531
Since God is eternal, perhaps He created all these things before He created time.

Edit: I'd like to see that article about the Catholic church admitting they altered Genesis. Please post it if there is a link.

Last edited by CantWait2Leave; 06-21-2010 at 04:18 PM..
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:33 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,573,824 times
Reputation: 145
Catholic may have had a large influence in Christian history: but the Textus Receptus or the Received Text were kept by the disciples that loved Him and His words at Antioch.

The History of the Keeping of His Words

I would have to doubt that one Catholic article more than the documents that the RCC could not have had a chance to "change". Even if they claim that they did change the words on the documents that they had in their possessions, I do not see any changes in Genesis as far as the King James Bible is concerned:

But for the sake of argument: let's say that they did: then they would have to change other parts of the Bible that referenced the seventh day as the sabbath day as the day of rest that was created for man as Jesus said: and not man for the sabbath.

Now if they managed to change all of that to impose such a 7 day creation belief as supported throughout scriptures, OT & NT, then they surely would have changed all the other scriptures that speaks against the works of catholicism because the Bible does reprove catholicism as a work of darkness.

How easy would it be for the RCC to eliminate all the seven churches in Revelation or even just address each one that God would say to them, "Follow the Church at Rome and you cannot go wrong"?

Feel free to link the article or state the title of the article that has bothered you so, but since it is written by a Catholic, I would not put too much emphasis on its merit just to doubt the keeping of God's words by those that loved Him to believe in evolution theory.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,769,273 times
Reputation: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Catholic may have had a large influence in Christian history: but the Textus Receptus or the Received Text were kept by the disciples that loved Him and His words at Antioch.

The History of the Keeping of His Words

I would have to doubt that one Catholic article more than the documents that the RCC could not have had a chance to "change". Even if they claim that they did change the words on the documents that they had in their possessions, I do not see any changes in Genesis as far as the King James Bible is concerned:

But for the sake of argument: let's say that they did: then they would have to change other parts of the Bible that referenced the seventh day as the sabbath day as the day of rest that was created for man as Jesus said: and not man for the sabbath.

Now if they managed to change all of that to impose such a 7 day creation belief as supported throughout scriptures, OT & NT, then they surely would have changed all the other scriptures that speaks against the works of catholicism because the Bible does reprove catholicism as a work of darkness.

How easy would it be for the RCC to eliminate all the seven churches in Revelation or even just address each one that God would say to them, "Follow the Church at Rome and you cannot go wrong"?

Feel free to link the article or state the title of the article that has bothered you so, but since it is written by a Catholic, I would not put too much emphasis on its merit just to doubt the keeping of God's words by those that loved Him to believe in evolution theory.
Excellent points
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:45 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,573,824 times
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I know that science can have fanatics that want to believe in the evolution theory as there are Star Trek fans, but the evolution theory is far from being proven.

As much as those in science are making such an endeavor to prove the theory, do keep in mind the prejudices towards those that dare to suggest Intelligent Design. They can lose their credentials and their tenures even. There is supposed to be an academic freedom in science to explore all hypothesis since a hypothesis is to be proven or disproven.

The Monkey Scopes' Trial, evolution theory was defeated, but Hollywood changed the outcome of the trial in a fictional movie as evolution theory winning out. This goes to show how the prince of the air is in the world.

Then if any scientific field wishes to get some guaranteed funding from the US government, if they prop up a finding that would support the evolution theory in the newspaper, they would get the funding as the case occurred when the supposed "Mars' meteor rock was found on earth with fossilized signs of life" which made headline news, but after they got the funding, a little article stated that there was an error and they explained that the appearance of fossilized mirco life was just an appearance. And the Mars rock returned to the shelf where it had come.

Then on the anniversary of Darwin's Theory of Evolution, strangely, a whole slew of "proofs" have come out off of the shelf to support the evolution theory.

I mean, really. Even though evolution theory was proven and debunked, science still allowed it to be pursued which is the basis of academic freedom to do so, but nowadays... misinformation and a drive by those that are anti-God and anti-creation, one can see how in the latter days, deceivers and seducers shall wax worse and worse.

So putting all that observation aside, we look at evolution theory:


Dinosaurs supposed to have been extinct long before man came unto the scene, but yet There are Peruvian potteries depicting dinosaurs, cave drawings, not to mention legends of dragons and such, along with dinosurs footprints with man fosiilized and running across each other..one print clearly on top of the other in Texas... and the proof of the Bible of the behemoth...

Job 40:15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

A cedar is a tree so the so called Biblical scholars that said in footnotes that it was a hippod or an elephant were not reading the scriptures without evolutionary sunglasses on.

So if dinosaurs were extinct long before man came unto the scene, then how can the Bible describe one and living too?

Fallible men in a fallible science with their fallible devices for measuring ages which has been proven to be inaccurate and inconsistent in numerous testings.

I would take the word of God over man any day.
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:12 PM
 
51 posts, read 110,750 times
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Default God bless you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaisj View Post
I have always had a lot of faith in God and the scripture that He has provided. I have been taught not to argue with the bible and that it should be taken literally. I have lately been trying to reach out to Him more by reading His word and praying. Remembering to glorify him throughout the day. As I am doing this, I feel that my eyes are opening and I am able to see a wider spectrum of things.
I am sorry, I will just get to the point. My husband has just graduated as a biologist and I helped him with a paper on evolution. My job was to study the social aspects of Charles Darwin's life. (I am a sociology major) During my research, I found an article about the Catholic church admitting that they altered the book of Genesis to show that the world was created in 7 days. I have been praying and thinking and reading scripture trying to understand the reasons for this.
I am not Catholic but I know that they have had a large influence in Chistianity today. I was disturbed and hurt after reading this article but at the same time I was relieved because this has been an issue in my marriage. I understand evolution but I have always BELIEVED in Genesis.
My faith has never been shaken this way. Please share your thoughts and help me to understand. Is it possible that evolution is real and that it is God's hand upon it?
Thank you for your input
It is sad these days that at least the lines of demarcation are not that well understood between what the Bible actually says,what people think the Bible says,& what conjecture the world proposes as fact.First off,the Catholic church did not write the Bible,nor could it change what Moses wrote that predates the Catholic church & has been found in artifacts that predate the Catholic church.Genesis was written by Moses under inspiration of God (2nd Timothy 3: 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.) Secondly,in Genesis 1 it states over & over the Hebrew word "Yom",which is not used anywhere else in Genesis to mean anything other than a 24 hour day.Furthermore,God Himself punctuated it with the words "and evening & morning were..." lest anyone get the idea that He was referring to anything other than a 24 hour day.God says in His word that sin came into the world,& with sin came death.If this is true,The world had to be a very crowded place if everything lived until the 1st sin.In Proverbs 3:5&6 it says this "Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight".True faith takes God at His word,& does not rely on any sophistry doctored up to appear to be science.If God is not God in Genesis,& if He did not create as He plainly stated He did,then He is not God.The choice is yours,but it takes a whole lot more faith to be an evolutionist or an atheist.God bless you
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,767,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisTime2010 View Post
I too believe Gods ways are past finding out. That is to say I believe God has revealed things to us in His word, but He has not revealed ALL things. I also believe God is always speaking, teaching, leading, and guiding us. I think He speaks in everything. And I also believe as time grows on He is speaking louder & clearer, but we (humans) are not always listening. Its funny because when I try to share my thoughts with my fellow "church" friends arguments & debates insue & really there is no need. What I think is my opinion. What I think God is saying, and what I think God is saying to me. No one has to agree with it. Its just my belief. At any rate I just wanted to say.
Agreed. I had a dream today and wondered if it was from God. But I will only keep it to myself, because it is for me. And I don't need to see if others think it was from God or not. Certainly not all dreams are from him, but I know He has used dreams to illustrate truths to me. When God speaks to me through a dream, I have a memory of the dream shortly after waking followed by thoughts of what the dream meant. I enjoy meditating on the things that He is speaking and try to tune in and focus on His voice - to be still and listen.

Heartsong
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