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Mystic ... I agree with you that ET is evil -- with annihilation I do not believe that it is evil in itself however that said I do not believe that annihilation is scriptural when the nature and purpose is looked at in total - God does not owe us anything .... but we do read of his nature and plan in scripture and while it is written in our hearts, we also all have the tares to overcome as well....... I do believe that he has made it known that the plan is first physical sown physical ....... then spiritual after judgment ......
I hope you were not offended with my criticism ... I know some people think that I am too critical and that is not my intent ......I apologise
I took no offense, my sister meerkat . . . "iron sharpens iron" so criticism helps us all to learn or reassess our understanding. Stagnant thinking and rote recitations and pronouncements of ancient interpretations is NOT what God expects of His evolving and maturing children.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 07-26-2010 at 04:00 PM..
Really Here4now,
You've never pictured God as the Master Baker and us his loaf of bread? We are the wheat mixed with water and oil and God is kneading us. This world is the threshing floor and the oven. Satan has desired to sift us like wheat because he wants to sit in God's high place. When we are finished baking there is a sweet aroma of fresh baked bread wafting throughout the whole house - a sweet aroma to God.
Love the ^^^^^analogy and can imagine it to be "The bread of Life"...
Love the ^^^^^analogy and can imagine it to be "The bread of Life"...
Oh yes ... the bread of life --- it is a great analogy which is what Jesus meant "eat of his flesh" "drink of his blood" and relates to The Holy Spirit comes in 'his name' authority, power ...... His words are spirit and life
Oh yes ... the bread of life --- it is a great analogy which is what Jesus meant "eat of his flesh" "drink of his blood" and relates to The Holy Spirit comes in 'his name' authority, power ...... His words are spirit and life
Amen and Amen...Psalm 41:13
Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, WHICH DID EAT OF MY BREAD, hath lifted up his heel against me.
This passage is a prophecy of the pending betrayal of Judas...
Sorry, Hot . . . I cannot reconcile believing in our hearts that something is evil . . . a conviction that can only come from the Holy Spirit . . . and then EXCUSE it in some trumped up rationale that God REQUIRES it for ANY reason.
You cannot. But for a child to learn, especially one who is walking the path,,then falling down is a part of the process. Otherwise, the TOL was for naught, and the TOKOGAE was for naught. We learn.
I think you need a little patience with us 'seekers'. Sorry, but I disagree with your thoughts on this.
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God NEEDS NOTHING!!
Yes, this is Truth. But God DESIRES something, and for this reason His Son paid the ULTIMATE price. In that which God desires, He has left it as sort of a roadmap written in the Word, called the Bible.
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. . . least of all anything that we puny humans could provide by anything we do, don't do, or any consequence we could possibly endure.
Consequences are part of learning as well. This is where you and myself disagree.
If I ask you to not walk in the road, because you might get hit and killed,by a car or whatever,,then what would you do?
You have a choice, right? I mean I could bind you, to force you from walking in the road, or one of a dozen other senarios.
If you do walk in the road, your fate resides SOLEY on your head.
I see the Word in this Light. It is an instruction manuel.
Now, you are at a place where being told to walk in the road is irrelevant. Why? Because you are driving on the road. Also, you would know to watch for traffic if by chance you did walk. But as a child?
So, with you living your life on a level that not many have attained, how then could you bash those who are still on the journey and being told to not walk in the road? It is almost bullyish.
Like the driver driving down the road laughing at the child with their parents giving them instruction.
But Mystic we are all on a journey of experiencing both the tree of knowledge and the light for ourselves ... we should not call each other evil - we are to judge ourselves I believe it when Jesus says that by our own words we will be judged
I have great respect for both you and Hot ...... I have learnt a lot from both of you
Cool.
You cannot. But for a child to learn, especially one who is walking the path,,then falling down is a part of the process. Otherwise, the TOL was for naught, and the TOKOGAE was for naught. We learn.
I think you need a little patience with us 'seekers'. Sorry, but I disagree with your thoughts on this.
Yes, this is Truth. But God DESIRES something, and for this reason His Son paid the ULTIMATE price. In that which God desires, He has left it as sort of a roadmap written in the Word, called the Bible.
Consequences are part of learning as well. This is where you and myself disagree.
An eternal consequence cannot serve as a correction leading to learning anything.
Quote:
If I ask you to not walk in the road, because you might get hit and killed,by a car or whatever,,then what would you do?
You have a choice, right? I mean I could bind you, to force you from walking in the road, or one of a dozen other senarios.
If you do walk in the road, your fate resides SOLEY on your head.
I see the Word in this Light. It is an instruction manuel.
We do not disagree about the consequences being what WE have sown and will reap. We differ on the duration and futility of any such consequence that is eternal.
Quote:
Now, you are at a place where being told to walk in the road is irrelevant. Why? Because you are driving on the road. Also, you would know to watch for traffic if by chance you did walk. But as a child?
So, with you living your life on a level that not many have attained, how then could you bash those who are still on the journey and being told to not walk in the road? It is almost bullyish.
Like the driver driving down the road laughing at the child with their parents giving them instruction.
Understand?
I am heartily sorry if I left that impression of bullying or laughing, my brother. It is not in my nature to do so. I just truly cannot accept a God who would establish eternal negative consequences for His finite creations . . . and I especially cannot abide one who tortures His creations for any reason.
You said something to the effect that you wished in your heart that UR was correct, but you believe annihilation is correct, but wished you did not.
Yes
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Iron made a very good point when you said that
And I was responding to Irons point.
Ahh, ok.
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There are probably many out there like Hotin who wish UR was correct and do not even like what they themselves believe.
If they didn't, I would question their love, honestly. I don't think many people would be cheering on those who would be heading to eternal torment, or annihilated. I wouldn't.
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Your heart and mind are in a stuggle with one another, believe your heart brother.
Oh, if it were that simple. See, my heart belongs to Another. If it is His will that He show me this, and completely convict me on it, I will embrace it whole heartedly.
I used to believe in it, and even defended it against the likes of people, like myself. Probably why it makes me a somewhat good debator. But, I was led away from it, because there were many verses that were struggling against my belief. I KNEW ET was not correct, and still know it isn't.
But I can see God's mercy given to even the unheard unbeliever. The unconvicted unbeliever, who lives in acoordance to God's Word. I can even see people who express their love for fellow human beings, in a life giving way, somehow making it in.
The problem was the religious. The hard-core fundamental pharisee, who abuses their flocks, and their fellow believers. The hate shown toward others. The abuse shown towards others. Kinda like being a member of an exclusive club, and everyone who doesn't have a membership, is treated like 'crap', and tossed aside,,,,,meanwhile claiming what they do, they do in His Holy Name.
I mean, look at Jesus' HARSHEST words. They were directed at the religious. He was so angry with them. They even blasphemed against the Spirit. How many do this today? It is an unforgiven sin, period. If a sin cannot be forgiven, and redemption cannot be achieved, then those who commit such a finalized sin must be dealt with, in accordance to the Word. Can they pay for this themselves? Is there such a punishment to bear that will nullify such a act against Him?
I am not sure it can happen, and if it cannot, then what? There was so much that was given to me concerning the Word and the mysteries in it, that confirmed my belief.
Even if EVERYONE is given a chance at redemption, out of ignorance of the Word and Spirit, then what of those who are NOT ignorant, and abused their own conviction, to the point they committed such an unpardonable sin? They did HORRIFIC things, in HIS NAME. MILLIONS DEAD. Not just the Hitler's, but what of Popes, Kings, and other authority positions, either in religion or governments.
If they didn't, I would question their love, honestly. I don't think many people would be cheering on those who would be heading to eternal torment, or annihilated. I wouldn't.
Oh, if it were that simple. See, my heart belongs to Another. If it is His will that He show me this, and completely convict me on it, I will embrace it whole heartedly.
I used to believe in it, and even defended it against the likes of people, like myself. Probably why it makes me a somewhat good debator. But, I was led away from it, because there were many verses that were struggling against my belief. I KNEW ET was not correct, and still know it isn't.
But I can see God's mercy given to even the unheard unbeliever. The unconvicted unbeliever, who lives in acoordance to God's Word. I can even see people who express their love for fellow human beings, in a life giving way, somehow making it in.
The problem was the religious. The hard-core fundamental pharisee, who abuses their flocks, and their fellow believers. The hate shown toward others. The abuse shown towards others. Kinda like being a member of an exclusive club, and everyone who doesn't have a membership, is treated like 'crap', and tossed aside,,,,,meanwhile claiming what they do, they do in His Holy Name.
I mean, look at Jesus' HARSHEST words. They were directed at the religious. He was so angry with them. They even blasphemed against the Spirit. How many do this today? It is an unforgiven sin, period. If a sin cannot be forgiven, and redemption cannot be achieved, then those who commit such a finalized sin must be dealt with, in accordance to the Word. Can they pay for this themselves? Is there such a punishment to bear that will nullify such a act against Him?
I am not sure it can happen, and if it cannot, then what? There was so much that was given to me concerning the Word and the mysteries in it, that confirmed my belief.
Even if EVERYONE is given a chance at redemption, out of ignorance of the Word and Spirit, then what of those who are NOT ignorant, and abused their own conviction, to the point they committed such an unpardonable sin? They did HORRIFIC things, in HIS NAME. MILLIONS DEAD. Not just the Hitler's, but what of Popes, Kings, and other authority positions, either in religion or governments.
Thoughts?
I like your heart brother, we my disagree but I know you have His Spirit.
God bless
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