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Tithing is still a biblical principle! More is said of it in the Old Testament than in the New Testament. This is because the tithe was connected with the tribe of Levi and their ministry for Israel.
Ultimately the tithe belongs to the Lord, not the church or the pastors! God redirects the tithe in the Old Testament to the Levites for their service in the temple and especially since they received no land as the other tribes did! And in Matt 23:23 Jesus clearly said that tithing remains in the New Testament era.
And 1Cor 9: 1-14 is the clearest passage in the NT regarding tithing. Paul refers to those who worked in the temple were paid from the monies that went into the temple. Then he says, "in the same way those who preach the gospel should live from the Gospel." It seems that he says that the way the Levites were paid was the model for the NT era preacher.
What you have to decide is whether your Pastor is actually doing the work of a preacher or not!! If you do then give them your tithes. If you think they are not then give it elsewhere, e.g. Bible Society, or like me, place your tithe towards evangelism materials to lead others to Jesus.
This was a question that came up during my Sunday school class, and I was always under the impression that if the pastor is truly a man of God, teaching the word of God unadulterated, and answering his congregation's every beck and call full time, then I don't have a problem with him getting a salary. What do you all think about pastor's earning a salary?
If they want to reap corruption then they should. If they don't believe they can work a job and still preach the Word of God and be satisfied then they lack the Faith that is in Jesus Christ.
For what a blasphemy to put a salary upon the teaching of the Holy Word. For the scriptures are full of scriptures concerning wage. Even the wages of sin is Death. For what wage then is fair for the ultimate service of bringing the Word of God? Especially when it is said that the least amongst us is the greatest?
I would never seek or charge to provide my brethren my Father's praise and admonishment.
If they want to reap corruption then they should. If they don't believe they can work a job and still preach the Word of God and be satisfied then they lack the Faith that is in Jesus Christ.
For what a blasphemy to put a salary upon the teaching of the Holy Word. For the scriptures are full of scriptures concerning wage. Even the wages of sin is Death. For what wage then is fair for the ultimate service of bringing the Word of God? Especially when it is said that the least amongst us is the greatest?
I would never seek or charge to provide my brethren my Father's praise and admonishment.
I tend to agree trettep , but looking at it from the point of view of the system where they have elevated or designated a pastor (in full time ministry) to lead and minister to it's congregations , i can see why they pay him , i do not think it would look good expecting a pastor to work on their behalf for nothing.
Tithing is still a biblical principle! More is said of it in the Old Testament than in the New Testament. This is because the tithe was connected with the tribe of Levi and their ministry for Israel.
Ultimately the tithe belongs to the Lord, not the church or the pastors! God redirects the tithe in the Old Testament to the Levites for their service in the temple ...
I am pretty sure that part is conjecture.
Quote:
... and especially since they received no land as the other tribes did!
Especially?
It is the only reason that God gave. Any other reasoning is guessing.
Quote:
... And in Matt 23:23 Jesus clearly said that tithing remains in the New Testament era.
What?
I dont think so.
A Jew addressing Jews telling Jews that they were focusing on tiny details while ignoring the heart of the Law.
Nothing of what you said is in that passage.
Quote:
.... And 1Cor 9: 1-14 is the clearest passage in the NT regarding tithing. Paul refers to those who worked in the temple were paid from the monies that went into the temple. Then he says, "in the same way those who preach the gospel should live from the Gospel." It seems that he says that the way the Levites were paid was the model for the NT era preacher.
sigh.
The text does not say that the priests were paid from the monies that went into the Temple. Stop making this stuff up. None of that is in the passage.
'paid' is not there, 'money' is not there.
Now if we can go back toward reality for a moment; grain, fruit and meat was brought into the temple.
1Cor 9: 13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
They partook of what had been brought to the altar. Stop adding your own ideas and stuffing them into the text.
Quote:
... What you have to decide is whether your Pastor is actually doing the work of a preacher or not!! If you do then give them your tithes. If you think they are not then give it elsewhere, e.g. Bible Society, or like me, place your tithe towards evangelism materials to lead others to Jesus.
For the record I am in favor of a pastor getting a salary, how else should I live? You want me to take on a full time job elsewhere, how could I possibly do both?
There have been times I am called out at 8 a.m. to go to the hospital and remain there for several hours. Community outreach, planning, meetings etc. take place pretty much any day of the week, and at any time.
The church I pastor is small and my salary reflects that. That's okay though, I am not in ministry for the money, I am in ministry because this is what I am called to do.
Oh yeah, in addition to the regular stuff, this week I worked with 3 volunteers and we painted the sanctuary (couldn't afford to pay someone), organized the meeting area, changed burnt out light bulbs etc.
My contract also calls for them to pay my cell phone bill and healthcare, given that offerings are down, I am paying for those myself. We needed new church handouts (not really marketing stuff, but information about the church type stuff), I am paying for those as well.
Should I be doing all this stuff, paying for these things without a salary? Good luck getting someone to do that.
Oh yeah, don't forget I also spent 3 years in seminary plus time on the job training, so yeah I do deserve to be paid for my time.
For the record I am in favor of a pastor getting a salary, how else should I live? You want me to take on a full time job elsewhere, how could I possibly do both?
There have been times I am called out at 8 a.m. to go to the hospital and remain there for several hours. Community outreach, planning, meetings etc. take place pretty much any day of the week, and at any time.
The church I pastor is small and my salary reflects that. That's okay though, I am not in ministry for the money, I am in ministry because this is what I am called to do.
Oh yeah, in addition to the regular stuff, this week I worked with 3 volunteers and we painted the sanctuary (couldn't afford to pay someone), organized the meeting area, changed burnt out light bulbs etc.
My contract also calls for them to pay my cell phone bill and healthcare, given that offerings are down, I am paying for those myself. We needed new church handouts (not really marketing stuff, but information about the church type stuff), I am paying for those as well.
Should I be doing all this stuff, paying for these things without a salary? Good luck getting someone to do that.
Oh yeah, don't forget I also spent 3 years in seminary plus time on the job training, so yeah I do deserve to be paid for my time.
AMEN! That is exactly the point of my post. Thank you RevRandy for all you do to not only carry the gospel message to your congregation, your community and the world, but for your service in so many different areas of ministry as well! Not only should pastors be paid a salary, they don't get nearly enough for the work they do. A calling to do a certain job is from God period, and does not only include pastors and other church workers. It includes teachers, nurses, attorneys, receptionists, city workers and sanitation workers. ALL, including pastors, music directors, church secertaries, church custodians, etc. should be paid a decent salary for what they do to serve us and our communities!
I tend to agree trettep , but looking at it from the point of view of the system where they have elevated or designated a pastor (in full time ministry) to lead and minister to it's congregations , i can see why they pay him , i do not think it would look good expecting a pastor to work on their behalf for nothing.
Actually they don't need to be paid. They only need to be provided what they need as to any brother in need. For those that believe there is a 10 percent tithe that they owe to the Church, they are mistaken. In fact if you have far in excess then God would want you to do far more than 10 percent to help those brothers in need.
Also, the Levites were Priest that didn't pay the tithes. Those called now in this period are being called to be Priests (the New covenant type of the Levitical priesthood). So if we are called to be priests then why would anyone think we are to pay a tithe? - were not supposed to.
Also, the Levitical priesthood used the tithes as sacrifices and such for service to the congregation. The Levites were the CHOSEN under that Covenant. Those being called now are the CHOSEN (firstfruits) under the New Covenant. They will administer to the rest of the Congregation at the chosen time.
For the record I am in favor of a pastor getting a salary, how else should I live? You want me to take on a full time job elsewhere, how could I possibly do both?
There have been times I am called out at 8 a.m. to go to the hospital and remain there for several hours. Community outreach, planning, meetings etc. take place pretty much any day of the week, and at any time.
The church I pastor is small and my salary reflects that. That's okay though, I am not in ministry for the money, I am in ministry because this is what I am called to do.
Oh yeah, in addition to the regular stuff, this week I worked with 3 volunteers and we painted the sanctuary (couldn't afford to pay someone), organized the meeting area, changed burnt out light bulbs etc.
My contract also calls for them to pay my cell phone bill and healthcare, given that offerings are down, I am paying for those myself. We needed new church handouts (not really marketing stuff, but information about the church type stuff), I am paying for those as well.
Should I be doing all this stuff, paying for these things without a salary? Good luck getting someone to do that.
Oh yeah, don't forget I also spent 3 years in seminary plus time on the job training, so yeah I do deserve to be paid for my time.
1Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
Your in favor of getting a salary is contrary to the example led by Paul.
Your in favor of getting a salary is contrary to the example led by Paul.
Perhaps but I am a CHRISTIAN Pastor, not a Paulian Pastor. I view Paul as the first theologian; I do not view his letters and teachings as equal to the teachings of Christ in the Gospels.
Actually they don't need to be paid. They only need to be provided what they need as to any brother in need. For those that believe there is a 10 percent tithe that they owe to the Church, they are mistaken. In fact if you have far in excess then God would want you to do far more than 10 percent to help those brothers in need.
Also, the Levites were Priest that didn't pay the tithes. Those called now in this period are being called to be Priests (the New covenant type of the Levitical priesthood). So if we are called to be priests then why would anyone think we are to pay a tithe? - were not supposed to.
Also, the Levitical priesthood used the tithes as sacrifices and such for service to the congregation. The Levites were the CHOSEN under that Covenant. Those being called now are the CHOSEN (firstfruits) under the New Covenant. They will administer to the rest of the Congregation at the chosen time.
Trettep i don't believe in the 10% tithe , i believe in giving what we freely have received. All i was stating was i understand from the system point of view , why they are paid . The guy who was kind of considered a pastor in the fellowship i was involved with before coming over here to the States , never received a salary, but the Lord met him marvellously throughout his life and he never told any man his need .
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