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The first thing Jesus preached was, "Change your mind, have another source of consciousness; because, the realm in which God is in control is so close you can reach out and touch it." (Thenceforth begins Jesus to be heralding and saying, "Repent! for near is the kingdom of the heavens!" (Matthew 4:17; Concordant Literal Translation)
The whole idea of child rearing is made void by the idea bandied about in this series of posts that no one can change their mind or heart. It also invalidates what Jesus' teachings begin with: "Repent," which means to obtain an altered consciousness. Not only can we change, we must be changed.
The idea that sexual preferences are genetic has a hook in it that you've probably not considered. If it was true, then we'll soon do prenatal searches for it and abort those with it...until we find a way to repair it. Without any evidence I'm right to believe it's not genetically determined. There may be inclinations, just like some people may find it easier to get angry and become much angrier than the average. That doesn't mean they aren't responsible for what they do.
This is where the real delusion comes, thinking if I'm born that way I have to accept it. I was born dirtying my diapers, but I didn't stay that way. If you are prone to go into fugue like rages where you hurt people, you are not only not going to be exonerated by our system of jurisprudence, you are more likely to be locked up for good. They'll throw away the key on a particularly evil criminal, one that has shown all his life he seems to have a constitutional propensity for crime.
By rejecting their own body, that it has half the sexual equipment of the two sexes, that it is functionally fulfilled by the opposite sex...that this is your assigned body you came into this cosmos with yet you reject it is the basis for your sense of rejection. You can vainly try to achieve acceptance from other people; but, even if you get it you wont be satisfied. It is wrong to think that you should make Christians accept homosexual behavior. Not only will that never happen, if you thought you found somewhere that your lifestyle was accepted by a certain sect of Christians, you still would feel rejected because you reject your own body!
The first thing Jesus preached was, "Change your mind, have another source of consciousness; because, the realm in which God is in control is so close you can reach out and touch it." (Thenceforth begins Jesus to be heralding and saying, "Repent! for near is the kingdom of the heavens!" (Matthew 4:17; Concordant Literal Translation)
The whole idea of child rearing is made void by the idea bandied about in this series of posts that no one can change their mind or heart. It also invalidates what Jesus' teachings begin with: "Repent," which means to obtain an altered consciousness. Not only can we change, we must be changed.
The idea that sexual preferences are genetic has a hook in it that you've probably not considered. If it was true, then we'll soon do prenatal searches for it and abort those with it...until we find a way to repair it. Without any evidence I'm right to believe it's not genetically determined. There may be inclinations, just like some people may find it easier to get angry and become much angrier than the average. That doesn't mean they aren't responsible for what they do.
This is where the real delusion comes, thinking if I'm born that way I have to accept it. I was born dirtying my diapers, but I didn't stay that way. If you are prone to go into fugue like rages where you hurt people, you are not only not going to be exonerated by our system of jurisprudence, you are more likely to be locked up for good. They'll throw away the key on a particularly evil criminal, one that has shown all his life he seems to have a constitutional propensity for crime.
By rejecting their own body, that it has half the sexual equipment of the two sexes, that it is functionally fulfilled by the opposite sex...that this is your assigned body you came into this cosmos with yet you reject it is the basis for your sense of rejection. You can vainly try to achieve acceptance from other people; but, even if you get it you wont be satisfied. It is wrong to think that you should make Christians accept homosexual behavior. Not only will that never happen, if you thought you found somewhere that your lifestyle was accepted by a certain sect of Christians, you still would feel rejected because you reject your own body!
Ugh! Going around in circles makes me sooooo dizzy.
Look how many views/responses this thread had generated in a very short period time. Very telling of the great human interest in sexuality ("Christian" or not).
Look how many views/responses this thread had generated in a very short period time. Very telling of the great human interest in sexuality ("Christian" or not).
Lastly being a chaste homosexual does not mean you have to live without love. Maybe you don't have romantic love, but maybe in a way you can have that too. There can be a certain romance to love of Nature, Community, the Poor, etc. And as gay men are more likely to have older brothers than straight men, there's been studies on that (and yes I have two older brothers, granted I'm only half-gay. Maybe if I'd had four older brothers I'd be just gay), you can have brotherly love as well.
Here's an idea. Anyone that preaches total sexual abstinence to homosexuals should practice it within their marriages and see how that feels. Then realize what they're basically asking gay people to do for life.
No, according to me the Bible has some pretty glaring contradictions. Love others and be tolerant, oh, but hate this, and this, and this and this.
So which one is it? Love or hate? Tolerate or judge?
Read it yourself and you'll see that there is not a single contradiction.
It seems that you don't understand love. If you love someone doesn't mean you won't condemn him or you won't judge him.
Are you serious? Jesus was all about teaching love, peace, and tolerance. Didn't you read all those verses about how he healed people (Luke 7:20-25)? Or love God and love thy neighbor? (Mark 12:30-31) Or when having a dinner, to invite the poor and other social outcasts? (Luke 14:7-14) According to the Bible, Jesus wanted us to be Holy, but that includes being loving, peaceful, accepting, and tolerant.
Those were miracles in order to establish His authority and who He was...and He followed it with 'go an sin no more,lest a worse thing come upon you'...Was He being peaceful and tolerant when He turn the tables in the Temple and made a whip and drove the money changers from there?...
The first thing Jesus preached was, "Change your mind, have another source of consciousness; because, the realm in which God is in control is so close you can reach out and touch it." (Thenceforth begins Jesus to be heralding and saying, "Repent! for near is the kingdom of the heavens!" (Matthew 4:17; Concordant Literal Translation)
The whole idea of child rearing is made void by the idea bandied about in this series of posts that no one can change their mind or heart. It also invalidates what Jesus' teachings begin with: "Repent," which means to obtain an altered consciousness. Not only can we change, we must be changed.
The idea that sexual preferences are genetic has a hook in it that you've probably not considered. If it was true, then we'll soon do prenatal searches for it and abort those with it...until we find a way to repair it. Without any evidence I'm right to believe it's not genetically determined. There may be inclinations, just like some people may find it easier to get angry and become much angrier than the average. That doesn't mean they aren't responsible for what they do.
This is where the real delusion comes, thinking if I'm born that way I have to accept it. I was born dirtying my diapers, but I didn't stay that way. If you are prone to go into fugue like rages where you hurt people, you are not only not going to be exonerated by our system of jurisprudence, you are more likely to be locked up for good. They'll throw away the key on a particularly evil criminal, one that has shown all his life he seems to have a constitutional propensity for crime.
By rejecting their own body, that it has half the sexual equipment of the two sexes, that it is functionally fulfilled by the opposite sex...that this is your assigned body you came into this cosmos with yet you reject it is the basis for your sense of rejection. You can vainly try to achieve acceptance from other people; but, even if you get it you wont be satisfied. It is wrong to think that you should make Christians accept homosexual behavior. Not only will that never happen, if you thought you found somewhere that your lifestyle was accepted by a certain sect of Christians, you still would feel rejected because you reject your own body!
Here's an idea. Anyone that preaches total sexual abstinence to homosexuals should practice it within their marriages and see how that feels. Then realize what they're basically asking gay people to do for life.
I don't have sex with anyone and I intend that to be for life.
Would I add the wrinkle of being celibate and married? Well that seems to contradict an important purpose of marriage, but yeah I've considered it. It would be easier, as a disabled man, to be independent if I were married. Particularly if I married someone with lots of money or great insurance. Still even if in principle I don't think marriage has to be for romantic love, exactly, I think it's wrong for a marriage to be just using the woman for disabled housing and good insurance. Even if I was providing some service, like my math skills or something, in return it still seems a tad too mercenary. I think I'd only get into a sexless marriage if it was someone I liked so well, even if I didn't love them or find them attractive, that spending my life with them sounded like fun. Still I'm not a eunuch, if I were the husband to someone I liked I might be tempted to at least try sex with them at some point.
I don't think this is a good analogy though. I never said a gay man should spend his life with another gay man, sharing a home and so forth, but never have sex with him. That seems a bit unrealistic and odd.
I don't think people choose to be gay, but this argument here is not as solid as it sounds.
There were Christians who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages. I know of people who could have hid their Jewish ancestry, but instead proudly proclaimed it, during the Nazi era. During the segregation era Jewish jazz musician Mezz Mezrow claimed to be black, which might seem to make sense in the jazz world but he also asked/begged to be sent to the "black prison" when he was arrested for dealing marijuana.
A person might feel the society they live in is very wrong and rebel against it. Or they might admire the strength and culture of the persecuted group. Or feel that they should share in their struggle. I think folk-singer Dar Williams once said being lesbian would be cool, some thought she was, but that alas she's not. If I'm right on her saying that that would indicate people don't choose it, even if they'd want to, but that maybe some would choose it.
Granted the number of people who would choose to be in a disliked or persecuted group is presumably much smaller than the number of people who are homosexual. Also many/most homosexuals are not highly contrarian people or trying to rebel against society.
I understand your point. Some people feel the need to make a stand concerning certain societal issues. And some people simply like being the victim. I'm sure there have been supposed homosexuals who would fall into either of those categories. But if that's the case, I would think those individuals would simply claim to be homosexual. After all, they'd really be straight. As a straight man, I can't even fathom somehow making myself sexually attracted to other men enough to go out and have sex with them, simply to make a point.
I have known at least a couple of men who seemed to be pretending to be straight in order to fit in to what society demands here in the Bible Belt. I already mentioned one in another post, but the other was a little different case. I worked with a man who seemed very feminine, but he was married. He had tried to be a truck driver, but it just didn't work out, and I met him working in a warehouse. He never talked about his wife, and the few times I saw him with her he seemed miserable and there appeared to be no attraction at all between the two of them. I guess you could say that he and I became friends, or at least we were close enough that he felt he could reveal certain things to me. One day he explained that he "used to be" gay. He supposedly became straight when he "found God". But he very rarely seemed to be happy, especially when I'd see him with his wife. He seemed to be happiest when he was working alone, or talking to me. Now I'll admit I can't know for sure, but this certainly seemed like a man who had been convinced he could become straight, and had tried to make himself believe it, and gone so far as to marry a woman. I also have to wonder if he tried to become a truck driver in order to appear "manly". It just seems that when people try to be something they are not, things often go badly for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888
Look how many views/responses this thread had generated in a very short period time. Very telling of the great human interest in sexuality ("Christian" or not).
We humans are basically just thinking machines whose goal is to survive long enough to reproduce. If you think about it, most of our physical characteristics revolve around attracting a mate. It's really no wonder that we are usually thinking about sex.
Lastly, my last post was deleted as "inappropriate" which is fine, but for the record I was simply stating my perception of God's apparent nature based upon the comments in this thread from people who are supposedly so well acquainted with him. It's the duty of Christians to tell others about God, and I was giving my opinion based on their descriptions of him. That's all.
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