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How many doctors have died from anti-abortion folks? Seven. David Koresh didn't try to kill anyone, but would not relinquish his position in the enclave. People died because of government actions on that one. Again, ridiculous comparisons. Folks 3000 people were killed on 9/11. Not to mention the property damage is in the mulitple BILLIONS. How many died at the army base a year or so ago at the hands of a Muslim? How many other plots have been foiled here and in Europe. There is no comparison. It's comments like yours that are an insult to America and to my intelligence.
I disagree with you but that's okay with me. I stand by what I say. I definitely don't see what I say as an insult to America and I'm not going to speak for your intelligence.
If you continue to find my posts so offensive to you - the answer is simple - don't read them!
I don't think it's fair to compare the Crusades to the terrorism that the Muslims continue to produce, no end in sight.
So "fair" is when your best is compared with their worst?
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It's a religion of hatred and I agree with what Juj said above.
How many Muslims have you known personally? My husband and I sponsored a Muslim family who came to the U.S. as political refugees about fourteen years ago. "Christians" had literally forced them from their own homes and into refugee camps. One morning when I visited them, the man started crying. He had just learned that his father, who had not left Bosnia with the rest of the family, had gone out to the barn (they were a farming family) the day before and when he opened the barn door, had been killed by a bomb that had been set to kill him. This was not an isolated incident. Thousands of Muslims in Bosnia experienced similar atrocities -- at the hands of "Christians." I have known quite a few Muslims, and with the exception of just one of them, they were fine, peace-loving people.
The thing is there doesn't seem to be as much hatred by Christians of Muslims, and there seems to be plenty of pure unadulterated hatred by Muslims of Christians. Our Christian Jesus was peace loving and that's what he taught, the Q'uran and the whole Muslim faith teaches that unbelievers of Islam must die, they're all infidels. I don't think it's fair to compare the Crusades to the terrorism that the Muslims continue to produce, no end in sight. It's a religion of hatred and I agree with what Juj said above.
I guess in I see so much hatred on C-D towards Islam and Muslims that I don't see things the same way that you do. And I would also say that there seems to be a lot of hatred and fear towards Muslims all over this country. Just look at the Mosque situation in NYC. Not all Muslims believe that infidels must die. I grew up with some Muslims. They were nice.
Like I said, I think there are crazies in every religion, every culture, every country.
How many doctors have died from anti-abortion folks? Seven. David Koresh didn't try to kill anyone, but would not relinquish his position in the enclave. People died because of government actions on that one. Again, ridiculous comparisons. Folks 3000 people were killed on 9/11.
Whenever people talk about suffering and throw out big numbers, it just amazes me. People don't "suffer" collectively; they "suffer" individually, and death is equally tragic regardless of numbers. Would 9/11 have been any less horrible had things not gone as the terrorists had planned and only 300 people had died instead of 3000? Had 70 anti-abortion doctors been killed instead of seven, would that have made any one of them more painful for the families involved? Killing is wrong, and the degree to which it is wrong is not reflected in numbers.
I guess in I see so much hatred on C-D towards Islam and Muslims that I don't see things the same way that you do. And I would also say that there seems to be a lot of hatred and fear towards Muslims all over this country. Just look at the Mosque situation in NYC. Not all Muslims believe that infidels must die. I grew up with some Muslims. They were nice.
Like I said, I think there are crazies in every religion, every culture, every country.
Well there are crazies in every religion, that's for sure. There may be severe dislike of Muslims by Christians by I think any true Christian would just wish the best for them and want them to come to know Christ Jesus. I don't see Christians over in the middle east causing terrorism like the Muslims do here. And you can't be serious about the Mosque thing.....I mean come on!! That would be a huge slap in the face of the families of all those who died at the hands of these Muslims right at the same sight!! I don't see any hatred here at C-D of Muslims, where do you see that?
Whenever people talk about suffering and throw out big numbers, it just amazes me. People don't "suffer" collectively; they "suffer" individually, and death is equally tragic regardless of numbers. Would 9/11 have been any less horrible had things not gone as the terrorists had planned and only 300 people had died instead of 3000? Had 70 anti-abortion doctors been killed instead of seven, would that make any one of them less painful for the families involved. Killing is wrong, and the degree to which it is wrong is not reflected in numbers.
It is a measure of how diabolical the plan was. It was financed from mulitple countries, people from many nations planned it and took years to execute the plan. Look I have a very good Muslim friend. Did I say every Muslim wants to kill a Christian. No. But there are many more Muslims plotting to kill Christians or Jews than the other way around. Muslims have driven Christians almost completely out of the middle east. The numbers don't lie. Alternatively, Muslims have come to the west in droves and mulitiplied quite successfully. You two are in total denial. No where in the Bible does it say you should ignore the obvious. The Bible says to love your enemy and your fellow man and turn the other cheek. The Quran tells folks to kill the infidel or make them servants. This is indisputable.
Whatever... Neither of us has denied that a great deal of evil has been done in the name of Islam. Unlike you, we're just not in denial over the evil that has been done in the name of Christianity.
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No where in the Bible does it say you should ignore the obvious. The Bible says to love your enemy and your fellow man and turn the other cheek. The Quran tells folks to kill the infidel or make them servants. This is indisputable.
No, it is very much disputable. Despite the verses which would encourage violence, other verses teach love, compassion, and respect for others. You can't simply pretend that the Qur'an does nothing but encourage violence. For example:
Honor each other: "O mankind! We created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know and honor each other (not that you should despise one another). Indeed the most honorable of you in the sight of God is the most righteous." Chapter 49, Verse 13
God loves the kind: "God does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither fought against your faith nor driven you out of your homes. In fact God loves the equitable." Chapter 60, Verse 8
Good and evil: "Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein, and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause shares in its burden." Chapter 4, Verse 85
Reaction to evil: "Repel (evil) with what is better. Then will he, between whom and thee was hatred, become as it were thy friend and intimate. And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint." Chapter 41, Verse 34 and 35
Do good: "Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden (paradise) whose width is that of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous - Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity or in adversity, who restrain (their) anger and pardon (all) men - for God loves those who do good." Chapter 3, Verses 133-134
Reward for righteousness: "Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily, to them will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions." Chapter 16, Verse 97
Acts of compassion: "And what will explain to you what the steep path is? It is the freeing of a (slave) from bondage; or the giving of food in a day of famine to an orphan relative, or to a needy in distress. Then will he be of those who believe, enjoin fortitude and encourage kindness and compassion." Chapter 90, Verses 12-17
Well there are crazies in every religion, that's for sure. There may be severe dislike of Muslims by Christians by I think any true Christian would just wish the best for them and want them to come to know Christ Jesus. I don't see Christians over in the middle east causing terrorism like the Muslims do here. And you can't be serious about the Mosque thing.....I mean come on!! That would be a huge slap in the face of the families of all those who died at the hands of these Muslims right at the same sight!! I don't see any hatred here at C-D of Muslims, where do you see that?
I lived in NYC for 12 years - and I have no problem with a Muslim cultural center a few blocks away from ground zero. I may be in the minority but I think they have every right to be there. Muslims died in 9/11, too. But that is for a different thread.
Perhaps what you see as severe dislike, I see as hate. I'm not sure how exactly to tell the difference unless someone tells me directly. Maybe we haven't seen the same threads on C-D - but I've seen a lot of hate and a lot of fear directed at Muslims. But that's just my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong - maybe we just disagree. Maybe we just see things differently.
My point is just that there are fanatics within every religion and we shouldn't base our opinions on the entire religion based on the fanatics. I don't think Christians would like to be judged based on the Westboro Baptists!
(A big "thank you" to the mods for re-opening this discussion! May we be able to debate with respect!)
I think there is a deeper concern to this issue than what I see being addressed so far. Consider this:
John Hagee (the preacher in the video) is one of the main voices for Christian Zionism. Christian Zionists like himself believe that Israel must exist in order for Christ to return. He therefore supports Israel's behavior no matter what they do because they are part of the "final Armageddon wars." (Not because he has any kind of love for the Jews, but because they must die there in order for his "God" to return. Only 144,000 of these Jews will be "spared.")
He is not at all against terrorism against Arabs (which has been going on in the Middle East for decades), and he is quoted as having said things such as "my father's generation... would have bombed Iran by this time." Christian Zionists purposely hope to see Arabs killed (if they don't repent and become Christians) in the "Armageddon war."
And not only. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are doing much to damage relations between American and the Middle East. We have killed a lot of innocent people (the discussions here about 9-11 don't hold water at all when considering the multiplied thousands we have killed abroad in the last decade), and this is all done with a religious tone, supported by much of American "Christianity." "Jesus killed Mohammad" was posted on tanks as they destroyed cities. Soldiers were "blessed by Jesus" before they went out to kill. Is this any different that Arabs dying for Mohammad? I think not!
Back to the video clip I posted, I wanted to point out specific quotes of Hagee for you to consider, just to show you how identical the two religions are:
- Hagee said that Islam is an "imperialist religion:" those who don't obey it are killed. But his Christianity has the same intolerance: those who don't follow it are killed by God or sent to Moderator cut: delete
- Hagee says that according to the Koran, there will be "inevitable conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims." But his Christianity says that there will be inevitable conflict between Christians and non-Christians.
- Hagee says that the 9-11 attacks were bad. But apparently bombing Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan is good.
- Hagee says that Muslims view non-believers are "pagans." His Christianity views all non-believers as pagans as well.
- Hagee says that Muslims use the Koran to "justify war." But Christians and recent American presidents have all used the Bible to justify war abroad!!
- Hagee points out that the Koran tells Muslims not to "befriend Christians and Jews." He says that Islam is not a "peaceful religion." But Christianity says to not befriend ANYONE of the world who is a non-believer, whether Muslim, Jew or otherwise! And Christian Zionism, of which he is a major leader, is looking forward to the day in which there will be a war between Jews and Arabs, with most of them getting killed, so that Christ "can return!!!"
- Hagee disagrees with the notion that Christianity can be a "sister religion" with Islam, because Islam punishes or destroys unbelievers (including himself). But he has no problem supporting the killing of unrepentant Arabs in order for Christ's Kingdom "to come."
So what I am seeing here (and from the video, it looks like no one in the audience is able to make the connection) is that fundamentalist Christianity (at least the militarist, dispensationalist section of it) and fundamentalist Islam are BOTH intolerant of each other, BOTH willing to kill the other for religious doctrinal purposes, BOTH will not embrace the other in peace.
They are identical (except for their "holy book" and name of their "God").
(I couldn't write all of this from my phone, that's why I had to wait till now to post this.)
Hoping everyone will post their thoughts...
Blessings,
brian
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-07-2011 at 04:03 AM..
Reason: had to delete hell
"Jesus killed Mohammad" was posted on tanks as they destroyed cities. Soldiers were "blessed by Jesus" before they went out to kill. Is this any different that Arabs dying for Mohammad? I think not!
I didn't know that, but looking to Bush "crusade",photos of "crosses" on tanks , mosques and Mushafs there, I can't say that you may expect the best !
Their statement is ridiculous anyway.
Also wanted to say that no "Muslim" Arab is dying for Muhammad - peace and blessings be upon him. we "muslims" know he is human without any divine characteristics.
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