Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This just goes to show that it's possible to "prove" virtually any position you want to take on any point of doctrine by an appeal to the Bible. A little creativity when it comes to interpretation never hurts either.
If the Bible repeats that requirement for salvation is faith 200 times, then that it enough proof for me. If you want to believe that salvation is impossible without a ritual of water baptism, then that is what you believe. Basically you are saying that Christ cannot save you without the aid of someone else performing a ritual, and I don't agree with that.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 02-23-2011 at 12:24 PM..
Interesting, yeshuasavedme. I can see how your interpretation of Jesus' water baptism makes sense. Thanks for sharing that.
You are welcome. Deeper studies are easy to do on the subject of "firstborn" of earth, since the first, firstborn son died in spirit in the fall; and the title never had a continuing office holder until God the Word came in flesh of second Creation, and received the Anointing of the Spirit for that office of Christ/Messiah/Everlasting Father of the second Man creation.
The office of "high priest" in the Levitical priesthood held the title only until Christ, the final Firstborn and Everlasting Father, would come. Because John baptized Jesus, then, I believe that John would have been the legal heir to that office, as it was corrupted at the time Jesus came in flesh, and those in the office were made by political appointments since Maccabean times, and were illegal office holders. -we have the same kind of problems today of illegal office holders -but the office itself is honored by us.
Now to be sons of the Firstborn, we must be born again in Spirit, ourselves, which is the adoption into His One Living Spirit. When His spirit adopts us it is called second birth, and we are then made sons of God in the New Man name, and as His adopted sons, He promised in John 14 to never leave us "orphans", and He ever lives to make intercession for us on high, where we had no one to intercede for us, in the heavenly temple on high, since Adam, our first father, died and was cast down and out of fellowship with the Creator.
But we have this promise from Jesus, The Word come in flesh as the human being "Everlasting Father" of the New Man race, and the "God of the whole earth", replacing Adam, as a human being "Firstborn" who ever lives to make intercession for us.
Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you orphanos/comfortless: I will come to you.Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth theSpirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
If the Bible repeats that requirement for salvation is faith 200 times, then that it enough proof for me.
The Bible never says that faith is the only requirement. While there are passages which appear to negate the importance of works, there are just a many passages that stress the importance of obedience to God's commandments.
Quote:
If you want to believe that salvation is impossible without a ritual of water baptism, then that is what you believe.
The Bible tells repeatedly stresses the need for baptism for the remission of sins. John the Baptist taught it; Jesus taught it; His apostles taught it. If you want to deny that this is the case, that's fine with me.
Quote:
Basically you are sayting that Christ cannot save you without the aid of someone else performing a ritual, and I don't agree with that.
I am not saying anything about what Christ can or cannot do. It has nothing whatsoever to do with His ability to do anything He wishes. In the future, I would appreciate it if you did not attempt to tell me what I am saying, because inevitably, you get it wrong.
The Bible never says that faith is the only requirement. While there are passages which appear to negate the importance of works, there are just a many passages that stress the importance of obedience to God's commandments.
There is a huge difference beween something being 'important' in a life of a Christian, and something being a REQUIREMENT for salvation.
Here is the only requrement for salvation.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
What must you do? You must believe.
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Romans 1:16-17
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
As you can see, we are not saved by rituals, but through faith.
There is a huge difference beween something being 'important' in a life of a Christian, and something being a REQUIREMENT for salvation.
Here is the only requrement for salvation... As you can see, we are not saved by rituals, but through faith.
Finn, we could argue this point till the day we die and never agree on it. You will never get me to believe that faith is the only requirement for salvation because there is simply too much evidence to the contrary for me to ignore. I know you want to have the last word on this, so I'm going to step out of the conversation and let you do so. It is absolutely pointless for us to continue arguing about something on which we will never see eye to eye. Please continue without me...
Finn, we could argue this point till the day we die and never agree on it. You will never get me to believe that faith is the only requirement for salvation because there is simply too much evidence to the contrary for me to ignore. I know you want to have the last word on this, so I'm going to step out of the conversation and let you do so. It is absolutely pointless for us to continue arguing about something on which we will never see eye to eye. Please continue without me...
No, you can have your last word. I already said what I had to say.
I believe this covers everyone.... (please think in spiritual terms about all the words... i.e. Jew/Greek/Slave/Free
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. - 1Corinthian 12-13
I have been baptized twice in water. The first time i was baptized in the name of the Father, son and holy ghost. After reading in the book of acts i felt at the time it was necessary to be baptized again, only this time in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. It mattered a great deal to me at that time,i did not believe it was a requirement back then,i did it in faith and for my conscience i do not believe it's a requirement today.
If you have a few minutes, this is a great video that covers Baptism and why it's necessary. If you want to skip the Lutherans in Africa discussion, the Baptism question starts around 2:00 in the video:
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A little creativity when it comes to interpretation never hurts either.
-but the office itself is honored by us.
