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As I repeat again, (given that you ignored these points and you have yet address them directly).
The phrase “mighty god[Heb: el]” can be translated as “mighty ruler” – e.g. (Isa. 9:6 (el = God) with Ezk. 31:11 (el = ruler)
“Everlasting[Heb: olam] Father” is better translated as “father of the [coming] age”. The Hebrews did not have one word for expressing the exact idea of “everlasting”. The word “everlasting” is a misleading and inaccurate translation.
Really an olam is an unknown period of time or age and therefore cannot be an “eternity” or “everlasting”. Here’s a link: Ancient Hebrew Word Meanings
"Father"[Heb: ab] I'm going to quote from the book “The Biblical Story of Joseph” by Donald Redford, who said this: “The term "father" is used in Semitic languages to mean a leader… Note how the term is used in Esther 3:13; 8:12 LXX, where Haman is called "father" of the Persian king; a Levite priest was 'father' to some Danites (Jud. 18:19); Elijah was 'father' to Elisha (2 Kings 2:12); Eliakim was 'father' to the people of Jerusalem (Is. 2:21). Joseph was 'father' to Pharaoh (Gen. 45:8)…”
So the title/name 'father' that you said is applied to 'Jesus' shouldn't automatically lead you to think that Jesus is ‘god’ the Father. There are different senses of the word.
And I believe the term "father" is being used in Isaiah 9:6 in a way consistent with other “biblical” usage to denote a leader, ruler, or a great one- but not ‘god’ as in person. Furthermore, I would like to add that many scholars out there that say such “throne names” or else royal titles such as “Wonderful Counselor”, “Mighty God”, “Everlasting Father”, and “Prince of Peace” were coronation names that were used for monarchs, rulers, and kings in other countries. It is said such royal titles were given to Egyptian kings at their accession.
........everlasting life, that why he came, for any one who followed after Him. Knowing no one is perfect, He gave us the Lords Prayer, to say, and use as an example
......There are many things I do not understand but there are conclusions I can reach. Ice can become water or steam but it remains water just in a different form. So I believe and yet doubt that I understand everything.
As I repeat again, (given that you ignored these points and you have yet address them directly).
The phrase “mighty god[Heb: el]” can be translated as “mighty ruler” – e.g. (Isa. 9:6 (el = God) with Ezk. 31:11 (el = ruler)
“Everlasting[Heb: olam] Father” is better translated as “father of the [coming] age”. The Hebrews did not have one word for expressing the exact idea of “everlasting”. The word “everlasting” is a misleading and inaccurate translation.
Really an olam is an unknown period of time or age and therefore cannot be an “eternity” or “everlasting”. Here’s a link: Ancient Hebrew Word Meanings
"Father"[Heb: ab] I'm going to quote from the book “The Biblical Story of Joseph” by Donald Redford, who said this: “The term "father" is used in Semitic languages to mean a leader… Note how the term is used in Esther 3:13; 8:12 LXX, where Haman is called "father" of the Persian king; a Levite priest was 'father' to some Danites (Jud. 18:19); Elijah was 'father' to Elisha (2 Kings 2:12); Eliakim was 'father' to the people of Jerusalem (Is. 2:21). Joseph was 'father' to Pharaoh (Gen. 45:8)…”
So the title/name 'father' that you said is applied to 'Jesus' shouldn't automatically lead you to think that Jesus is ‘god’ the Father. There are different senses of the word.
And I believe the term "father" is being used in Isaiah 9:6 in a way consistent with other “biblical” usage to denote a leader, ruler, or a great one- but not ‘god’ as in person. Furthermore, I would like to add that many scholars out there that say such “throne names” or else royal titles such as “Wonderful Counselor”, “Mighty God”, “Everlasting Father”, and “Prince of Peace” were coronation names that were used for monarchs, rulers, and kings in other countries. It is said such royal titles were given to Egyptian kings at their accession.
Kids...I have dealt with this already. This isn't rocket science....no need for interpretive gymnastics and argumentative grumbling here...simple ancient themes...coming together....No worries....believe what you want...if Dan 7 and Rev 1 isn't enough for folks like you...I don't know what is....maybe a leap of faith? Give it a try, it ain't gonna hurt you.
A certain ruler asked him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus asked him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good, except one--God.
Why do you call me good? That title only belongs to God (in other words, I am NOT God). Could Jesus have been any clearer? I don't think so...
Read John 1:1 2Tim 2:15 Intellectually you can not conclude Jesus is not God. As an Intellectual you will see that when you read all the scripture and believe it true, you notice that Jesus was "with God and is God".........if you trust God to answer your prayer , Maybe 2Tim2:15 would give you a clue if you Study and Pray. It is a fault, easy to fall into, taking scripture out of context, I struggle myself, But look at all the learned comments on the subject. A book by Josh McDowell ' More than a Carpenter" will very clearly explain Jesus was God or he was a Liar. Jesus said he came , not to bring peace, but to divide. Nothing more clear , and opinions must fall on one side or the other. Contrary to what most people think , there is a method to use logic to prove the major facts of Christianity and this being one of them. McDowell uses the example of bringing the evidence into a court of law, The written facts and logic will come to bear , and he lays it out, to show only someone deficient in common sense, or has a severe character flaw , would not understand. Pride stopped me for many years and I really had very little to be proud of. If you basic already believe the Bible, then keep studying and you will hear from the one who inspired it. To be Excellent at any thing, requires years of dedicated study.
Careful.........lets say God is a spirit, God is Love...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7
So Jesus has a God, and God has a God too, Jesus. Maybe God worships Jesus the way parents worship their children.
..........What is a spirit? In high school we learned how to establish congruency of Triangles......Read John 1:1.......we are not talking about what we think but what scripture supports. Not out of context. But the truth is established by testimony of witnesses. Not one but many.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
JESUS is called by many names in the bible....just knowing the names does shead light on the Subject
Heb 1:9 Thou lovest righteousness and hatest injustice; Therefore Thou art anointed by God, Thy God, with the oil of exultation beyond Thy partners."
Jesus has a God.
He told His disciples "He is ascending to His God and their God." So Jesus was saying He is not their God but that their God was in heaven which was where He was headed after resurection.
And yet God said about His Son this:
Heb 1:8 Yet to the Son: "Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of the eon, And a scepter of rectitude is the scepter of Thy kingdom."
So, the question to ask is: What is meant by the term "God"? It means "Subjector" or "Placer."
Jesus is a "Theos" (Greek for God). He is a Subjector. God is subjecting all mankind to His Son. So His Son is a Subjector.
God told Moses He was a Theos to Pharaoh and Aaron was to be his prophet.
So Moses was the subjector of Pharaoh.
God told the Jews that they were theos or Gods. The judges and rulers of Israel were subjecting the people to the law and to God.
So Jesus has a God.
The disciples have a God who is the God of Christ.
Paul wrote:
1Co 8:5-7 For even if so be that there are those being termed gods,
whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many
lords, (6) nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him." (7) But not in all is there this knowledge.
So the Father is God Who is the source of all.
And one Lord, Jesus Christ.
.........if you have seen me you have seen the Father...........The Jew wanted to kill Him because He said that, of course his followers were mostly Jewish, it was the Jewish leaders who objected .............can you explain away the New Testament
in this regard.
Somebody is wrong ............God is a spirit but Has a Right hand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
Phil 2:7...I don't dig it man...a man doesn't take on the likeness of a man, because he is a man. God, however, can take on the likeness of a man.
You dig?
Jesus is not on the right hand of God, He is God, on the throne, and He, and God ARE the Temple. Dig?
See this is not for the casual observer...........I think I know the answer......one answer , God did not, in His infinite wisdom, did not see fit to make it simple. In fact 2tim2:15 says study, and if you seek wisdom ask God for it. Jesus said no man Has seen God and then said if you have seen me you have seen The Father..............so if you don't believe it ,O.k. but but have you actually Read the New Testament, or is this a "religious" interpretation, if so you must be aware that not all Christians read the Bible the Same way.........
'
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