*+*+*+*+*+Adam's sin made all mankind sinners, Jesus' act made all mankind . . . +*+*+*+*
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I don't believe God "forces" us to be rapists (God forbid!). He simply forces us to be born in the lineage of Adam. The "natural man" that you mentioned above. That is the "part" of us that must die, so that the Second Adam, Christ, may arise in us.
Yielding to Adam, or yielding to Christ.. just like in your quote above. Thank you for posting it! I think we agree on more than we might be aware!
I think we are closer in agreement than you think.
What you say above about our nature is exactly right. It is our nature to do so - to sin. By nature we are sinners.
So to the questions I asked: are we sinners because we sin? YES.
And do we sin because we are sinners? YES. This is what our nature is.
That is what I'm talking about. Its not that we are sinners because of our father's sin. But we are all sinners. You ask about a 5-year old child - no I would not call them a liar if they had never told a lie. But guess what. Almost every (perhaps 100%) 5-year old child I have ever met has already told a lie. Almost every (perhaps 100%) 5-year old kid has taken a toy from another kid at some point.
Hope that made some sense...
According to what Paul wrote in Romans 5:12, the reason we are sinners is NOT because we sin but because death passed through into all mankind and it is because of that that all sin.
According to what Paul wrote in Romans 5:12, the reason we are sinners is NOT because we sin but because death passed through into all mankind and it is because of that that all sin.
Yes I understand.
We are sinners because of the nature passed onto us. And because of that we sin, thus we are sinners.
We are destined to become sinners because of the nature passed on to us. And when as soon as we do what our nature has dictated we do, we have sinned.
And what is more, God sometimes sends us a delusion, a reprobate mind, an evil spirit..
So God does things for a purpose, and it's not true that we are "all free to choose Christ" if it is true that God sends us delusions. He blinds and He gives sight.
Jesus said, "I came that those who see might be made blind." That is some serious stuff!
If God makes us blind, how can we see? Or how can we be guilty of not seeing??
We are sinners because of the nature passed onto us. And because of that we sin, thus we are sinners.
You keep exchanging a man-made expression for a biblical one. You keep exchanging "nature" for "death."
It was not a nature that was passed through into all mankind because of what Adam did. It was death that was passed through and because of death, all sinned.
We are destined to become sinners because of the nature passed on to us. And when as soon as we do what our nature has dictated we do, we have sinned.
Nature is not sinful.
"when the nations do by NATURE that which the law demands" . . .
It is not nature but DEATH. Because death is operating in is due to what Adam did, all sin.
Rom 2:14 For whenever they of the nations that have no law, by naturemay
be doing that which the law demands, these, having no law, are a law to
themselves,
Rom 2:27 And the Uncircumcision who, by nature, are discharging the law's
demands, shall be judging you, who through letter and circumcision, are a
transgressor of law."
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