Mark 16:15-16 DID JESUS SAY IT? (verses, translation, symbolize, baptized)
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Baptizing that person, on the other hand, is a required ordinance (or sacrament) sanctioned by God and approved of by God. Consequently, it must be done by someone who holds the authority given by God.
How does one know if a person has authority from God to baptize? For instance: Judas was a disciple of Christ, and I think it would be fair to assume he probably also baptized like the other disciples:
Joh 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
And, we also know that Judas was not born of the Spirit, right? And, if Judas did baptize others, by whose authority then did Judas baptize? And, were the baptisms Judas performed legitimate baptisms?
How does one know if a person has authority from God to baptize? For instance: Judas was a disciple of Christ, and I think it would be fair to assume he probably also baptized like the other disciples:
Joh 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
And, we also know that Judas was not born of the Spirit, right? And, if Judas did baptize others, by whose authority then did Judas baptize? And, were the baptisms Judas performed legitimate baptisms?
The scriptures say that Jesus called twelve and ordained them. Judas was ordained just as the other eleven were. He was given exactly the same power and authority as the others. So yes, baptisms performed by Judas were legitimate.
The scriptures say that Jesus called twelve and ordained them. Judas was ordained just as the other eleven were. He was given exactly the same power and authority as the others. So yes, baptisms performed by Judas were legitimate.
If someone today demonstrates they are not born of the Spirit and yet are ordained to baptize, are the baptisms they perform legitimate? And, who ordains them, and how does one know they are ordained?
How does one know if a person has authority from God to baptize? For instance: Judas was a disciple of Christ, and I think it would be fair to assume he probably also baptized like the other disciples:
Joh 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
And, we also know that Judas was not born of the Spirit, right? And, if Judas did baptize others, by whose authority then did Judas baptize? And, were the baptisms Judas performed legitimate baptisms?
Well Alabama Tell me Just what did Jesus mean when he said to Peter he would give him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven ? Matthew 16:19 ?
And what dose this passage mean ? Please your insight !
Hebrews 8:7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sough for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said: " The time is coming , declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 9It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," He has made the first one obsolete: and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
We are in the New Covenant now - If you did not know . We now enter the new covenant by water and Spirit.
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, whoever dose not believe will be condemned . ( Jesus Speaking)
Acts 2:38 !
And lets look at John 4:2 Did you know I just read that the Word But in the Greek means Except .
And that it is possible that the verse John 4:2 should read like this .
John 4:2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but ( EXCEPT ) His disciples. If you replace but with the Greek meaning Except do you see how that would change that ? But rather Jesus baptized or not , it dose not change his command to us. It dose not change Mark 16:16 or Acts 2:38 !
Katzpur - Now let me understand this...are you saying...lol...that the devil's children (Joh 8:44) are also ordained by God to baptize God's people?
To let you know, I agree with you that Judas was clearly authorized by Christ (God) to baptize. However, does this same example carry over to those today who clearly show they are not born of the Spirit? How do the Judas' of our day gain their authorization to baptize?
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 05-07-2011 at 10:20 PM..
Reason: Clarification
Well, I guess I'm not sure what it is you're saying. If, as you say, Jesus was speaking of "water baptism" in John 3:5, then "water baptism" was essential to being born of the Spirit, including everyone who lived and died prior to Pentecost. I really don't see how you can get around this theological dilemma you've created, or at least are advocating for.
Look. Jesus tells us that everyone who is born of the Spirit is born of the Spirit in the same way:
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
What I think you've done, is made an erroneous assumption that "water" in Joh 3:5 is somehow speaking of "water baptism", and with that assumption you've created (or at least believed in) a theological system that revolves around that concept.
I believe when Jesus spoke of "water", He was speaking of the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit (His own Spirit) that cleanses us with clean "water" which gives birth to a new heart and spirit within us:
Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
I also believe that this is the "water" that Jesus was speaking of while chastising Nicodemus, a master of Israel, for not knowing about:
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
I am not in a dilemma , you are !
How you get around Matthew 16:16-19 / Matthew 28:16-20 / Luke 24:44-49 and Acts 2:38 ?????????????????????????????????????????
...We are in the New Covenant now - If you did not know . We now enter the new covenant by water and Spirit....
Actually, there has always been two covenants. The covenant of works, given to Adam in the Garden (Gen 2:16-17), and the Covenant of Grace which God proclaimed to Adam by promise after the fall (Gen 3:15).
The covenant of grace has always been in effect, and was administered by promise up until it's manifestation "in these last times" by the death of Christ (that Testament signed with His own blood).
But you have to remember, that Christ is said to have been slain before the foundation of the world. The covenant of Grace has always been in effect for those who believed, and for those who entered into it's promises through faith.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Paul testifies to this concerning Abraham, here:
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
As well as David, here:
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
What the New Covenant did, or does, is put away the covenant of works, that held captive those under it's laws and ordinances, until born of the Spirit.
I have answered your question once - How much clearer can I make it ?
You've really not. If you have, you've not answered the questions I've raised concerning your answer.
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