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I just wanted to do a poll showing how many Christians believe that the word of God, Christ our lord, will fail to accomplish Gods desire to save all people. Do you believe Christ will fail, yes or no?
If you're a Christian who believes in the full Christian doctrine regarding God and Jesus Christ...how on Earth can you believe that Christ will fail? This question doesn't make sense.
No...people being held accountable for approving what is false is not new, God does it Romans 1:18-32
Kat takes a preterist view of scripture. Pretty sure Lego doesn't. How is he "approving" something he doesn't agree with? And even if Lego was preterist, it has no bearing on whether or not bible says the message the angels brought will bring joy to all people. Your arguments are like a novice magician's tricks ... trying to misdirect attention, all mirrors and smoke and clumsy sleight of hand.
But then how are we to discern what applies to us today? Are we to still pay attention today to a verse like Isaiah 40:8, which declares,
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
KJV
I think it's important to remember that the Bible has plenty to say about the return of our Lord and of a final judgment (day). It speaks of the destruction of this present earth, and a recreation of a "new heavens and a new earth". Let's consider the passage below (2 Peter 3:10-13).
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV
This appears to be a future event. There is more that can be cited; but this should be enough for now, as it seems to warrant some consideration. The whole scenario of salvation for believers and judgment for unbelievers seems also to be something yet forthcoming. Otherwise, if we are saved now what would be the basis for that salvation (Yes, it's God's love and mercy, but one must still be in Christ, as the Bible has not abandoned that premise). And then, what of those who die today without having come to Christ? Does the Bible not yet apply to this situation?
Thanks.
I started a new thread so we don't interrupt this one....
I understand being agnostic (obviously) but I'm asking if you personally tend toward a belief that Christ really is the savior of all (agnostically speaking ), not just that the bible says so (and I agree that it does) -- if you don't mind answering?
I don't mind. I think that (agnostically) if God is no respecter of persons then yes, he would have to save all. Also, in my experience, people tend to live full and happy lives when they don't play favorites and just love everyone (yes, hippy-like) equally.
So having been an ETer for 20 years I know fear and bondage. But that all changed once i espoused UR, the burden is light when you know that you don't need to hound all the people you care about so that god won't burn them endlessly.
If Christ fails to save even 1 person then he is not the same shepherd the bible describes as leaving the 99 to save the lost.
"Those who accept the good news are rewarded with joy."
But that is not what the verse says!
Of course all people do not have great joy right now, because most of them have not heard the good news. Yet.
How convenient. It didn't happen the way you thought, so now you claim that it will happen in the next life. Sigh.....
Quote:
Wow. So you are trying to say the 'news' is for all the people but the 'joy' is not? What a stretch. That doesn't even really work. Try a few different translations and you will see your interpretation is incorrect:
NIV (2011)
Luke 2:10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that willcausegreatjoy for all the people.
KJV
Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
NCV
Luke 2:10 The angel said to them, "Do not be afraid. I am bringing you good news that will be a great joy to all the people.
NLT
Luke 2:10 but the angel reassured them. “Don’t be afraid!” he said. “I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people.
Its obvious this verse is saying the good news will bring great joy to all people.
Good news of great joy. Just because people hear news of joy, does not mean they feel joy. Did Herod feel joy? Did the Pharisees? No, a lot of people hated the news of the messiah.
If the angel was saying that the joy was reserved for the dead, as yo usuddenly claim, they why on earth was he talking to the living? Why didn't he say that to the dead? Think!!!!
The good news of great joy is available to everyone who wants it, all you need to do is surrender your heart to Christ and it will happen. This verse actually proves UR false, all humanity can see that the mere existence of the good news did NOT bring great joy to all, and it is evidenced by the fact that a lot of people are miserable. Those who accept the Lord are given joy.
I don't mind. I think that (agnostically) if God is no respecter of persons then yes, he would have to save all. Also, in my experience, people tend to live full and happy lives when they don't play favorites and just love everyone (yes, hippy-like) equally.
So having been an ETer for 20 years I know fear and bondage. But that all changed once i espoused UR, the burden is light when you know that you don't need to hound all the people you care about so that god won't burn them endlessly.
If Christ fails to save even 1 person then he is not the same shepherd the bible describes as leaving the 99 to save the lost.
Save all from what? From his own wrath? Does that make sense to you?
Save all from what? From his own wrath? Does that make sense to you?
It seems to make sense to you because the only thing to be saved from in your view is His wrath in ET . . . otherwise it is "no biggie." Just "reaping what we sow" is apparently not wrathful enough.
A lot of people who subscribe to the type of theology represented by what has been called "Calvinism" are not happy with the term, as it suggests that it originated with Calvin.
But we know that if Calvin held to that type of doctrine he did so because it is what the Scriptures teach. Even so, other believers in God's absolute sovereignty in salvation just let it go and still acknowledge the term "Calvinist" (though the term should probably not be used....some just say they believe the doctrines of grace, or "reformed" theology). Just the term "Calvinism", I believe, has evoked more rage and discontent than the doctrines it represents
I'm sorry, but if the teaching that God created most of humanity for sole purpose of torturing them forever doesn't upset you, then i think you have an extreme moral dilemma.
It seems to make sense to you because the only thing to be saved from in your view is His wrath in ET . . . otherwise it is "no biggie." Just "reaping what we sow" is apparently not wrathful enough.
Define 'reaping what we sow'? What does it mean in the worst case? Someone else told me it means 'shaming', but that person was unable to explain what 'shaming' was. It seems to be an important part of ur religion, but no one knows what it is.
Are you saying all people are saved from shaming? Do you know what salvation is?
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This question doesn't make sense.
), not just that the bible says so (and I agree that it does) -- if you don't mind answering?
