God's nature is not like a mono-rail ...and because of that we benefit. (myths, beliefs)

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Or a person can be deluded because God sends a delusion to think that wrath of God is for the benefit for humans when demons cry out " Lord, have you come to destroy us?"

His wrath will destroy the evil angels ... it will be no less for the children of the devil whom Jesus said those who reject him are.

So which do you believe? That all God does is for the ultimate benefit of mankind, or only some things. You seem to waffle between the two concepts.

Bingo... it's not that you can't put two and two together. It's that you reject the truth with an alternative to what Jesus clearly says.

Well, you can't seem to make up your mind, your thread title says that Gods nature is for our benefit and then you say it is not. What alternative am I believing. If you believe all God does is for everyones benefit, I also believe that, yet here you seem to waffle between the concepts that Everything God does benefits man, but some of what he does doesn't.

"God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell," 2 Peter 2:4
"God did not spare the natural branches , he will not spare you either." Romans 11:21

And again, you wish for me to read those verses verbatim but not 1 Timothy 2:3-4

"whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him" John 3:36

And again, you wish for me to read those verses verbatim but not 1 Timothy 2:3-4

"whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16

"whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." John 3:18

And again, you wish for me to read those verses verbatim but not 1 Timothy 2:3-4

"Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son." 1 John 5:10

And again, you wish for me to read those verses verbatim but not 1 Timothy 2:3-4

Psalm 130:3
If you, O LORD, kept a record of sins, O Lord,who could stand?

I think you were too busy copy and pasting verses when you added this one. Indeed, "IF" God kept a record "WHO" would stand. Certainly not Twin.Spin. He wouldn't stand. That is the point. Gods wrath combined with his nature wipes that record out.

Psalm 69:23
May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.

1Ti 2:1 . I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;

Your approach to scriptural implications makes a better case for the bible contradicting itself.

Yet, when we look at the passage in psalms we do not find those verses being a declaration of what God will do but it can be seen two ways.

What way should we read it twin, should we read it in the light of a concept that ALL God does is for mans benefit, or read it in the light that not all God does is for our benefit?

Since you waffle between the two concepts, I will choose to read it in the light that all God does is for our benefit, so it is more likely that that passage is a depiction of what God will do to the evil within us. Our greatest enemies are not in the physical world but things within us that prevent us from reaching our spiritual potential, it is there where this war is waged.


All God does is for our benefit. Make up your mind which you believe, you pretend you have, but your own words betray you.

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Because "the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

That's right, God doesn't spare the angels that sinned, he won't pervert justice and shows partiality to those humans either.

"God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell," 2 Peter 2:4
"God did not spare the natural branches , he will not spare you either." Romans 11:21

God's standard has those who rejecting Jesus being sent to hell.
"God did not spare the natural branches , he will not spare you either." Romans 11:21

So you believe in the Greek god Tartarus too? Whose home is the abode of the damned below hades? I thought you realized that these hell words you use have roots in greek mythology... I guess not. You can have your mythology.

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

I have no problem with the fact the two natures of God deals differently depending whether one has faith or not.

Those who don't please God are not treated the same as those who do.

"God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell," 2 Peter 2:4
"God did not spare the natural branches , he will not spare you either." Romans 11:21

Those verses do not negate the promise of 1 Timothy 2:4, God does not have two natures and there is no scripture that indicates anything of the kind.

God dealing diffrently with each of us does not equate to having two natures, God deals differently with each of us because he made us all unique and his interaction with all of us is through his nature of LOVE.

He does not have a "nature" of wrath that is separate from his LOVE. Scripture tells us the LOVE is most of all the only thing that counts.

Your biblical knowledge and your theological beliefs are nothing without LOVE.

Gods WRATH is not separate from LOVE for that very same reason.

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

So which do you believe? That all God does is for the ultimate benefit of mankind, or only some things. You seem to waffle between the two concepts..

It is you that has the either or problem.

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

"God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell," 2 Peter 2:4
"God did not spare the natural branches , he will not spare you either." Romans 11:21

And again, you wish for me to read those verses verbatim but not 1 Timothy 2:3-4.

2 Peter 2:4, Romans 11:21 puts your context of 1 Timothy 2:3-4 as out of line with what God justly does with those who reject him.

Did God really do that to Satan .... yes
Did God really do that to those who followed Satan .... yes
Did God really not spared those from Isreal who rejected him .... yes
Will God not spare those who will ..... yes

The two parallel natures of God are that he desires all, but only is please to save those who believe. Those who do not are sent to hell.
After Matthew 25:41-46, Rev 20-21 happens, then God will have rid the wrath being stored up that the unbeliever will have to endure in full measure.

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

It is you that has the either or problem.

Believing that all God does is Just and that all he does is for the benefit of man is not an either or problem.

You are the one that made the implication that Gods nature is for our benefit, but then go on to explain that it won't benefit everyone.

Make up your mind.

2 Peter 2:4, Romans 11:21 puts your context of 1 Timothy 2:3-4 as out of line with what God justly does with those who reject him.

Yes, God justly does what is needed to bring about the declaration in 1 Timothy 2:4

The two parallel natures of God are that he desires all, but only is please to save those who believe.

That must be someone elses argument you are trying to refute. I do not believe that an unbeliever will be saved nor do I teach that is the case in scripture. I do know scripture declares that all will believe and God is pleased.

Those who do not are sent to hell.
After Matthew 25:41-46, Rev 20-21 happens, then God will have rid the wrath being stored up that the unbeliever will have to endure in full measure.

Not disputing what an unbeliever may endure, but it will be for the unbelievers benefit.

Your interpretation here is skewed because you will not apply the correct definition of thelo. Documentation exists that shows that there is a pattern of people to use thelo in the light of a passive wish and that is incorrect.

The issue is that it is in context with a determination by God to take for himself that which is his to do. Does God desire to save all mankind? of course, is salvation something God must do? yes it is. A determination of a subjective impulse is something based on Gods soverignty that will absolutely happen.

None of those verses changes that, yes indeed, mankind can suffer consequenses, why do you still try to argue that I do not believe that, when I do. Your problem is that I simply do not agree with you concerning what those consequenses are.

[Bright Hope for Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

I realize that for some (mostly the UR crowd), the understanding of God's nature is like a mono-rail train and not like a two rail (track) train as the Bible teaches. Through out the Bible it is taught that these two natures of God parallel each other... God's wrath and God's love.

Two things that are parallel never converge. Also, the dictionary says parallel means "having the same direction, course, nature, or tendency; corresponding; similar; analogous." Hmmm..... How can the same nature be both to save and to torture forever? How could these be the same direction or even remotely similar? It seems your "two-rail" god is really two gods - one of love and one of wrath, and not the one, true, and living God who is the creator of the the universe, the Savior of the World, and the who IS love.

[saved33]

God is who He was in the Old Testament, as well as who He was in the New Testament.

God is Holy and hates sin and therefore cannot be in the presence of sinners (ALL OF US).

God's begotten Son, Jesus Christ, came in the flesh (this time, at birth) to be a go-between / mediator between us and God. He came here in the flesh to - not condemn -- at this time, - but to bring people to salvation through Him, and ultimately reconcile us to God. That's why those who are born again of the Spirit of God call Jesus the Savior. Some of us will want the salvation, and others will not.

Timothy explains this...
1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

Titus 2 as well...
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. [YES, JESUS APPEARED - He came in the flesh] 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

But Jesus Christ, at His Second Coming - is coming to judge and condemn this time.

2 Timothy 4:1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"

[Bright Hope for Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by saved33

Some of us will want the salvation, and others will not.

Do you believe in eternal torment? If so, are you saying people choose to be tossed in fire forever? Let's say you rejected the beliefs of Heaven's Gate, the group that committed suicide to be saved from this planet and catch a ride on an alien spacecraft. Would it be true that you "didn't want that salvation?" Yes, because you thought it was nonsense. In the same way, when someone doesn't believe in Christ, it's not that they don't want salvation. They just don't believe they need it.

I think the theory that people don't want salvation is a convenient way for Christians to make themselves feel better for not worrying too much about the fate of their non-believing fellow human beings.

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

None of those verses changes that, yes indeed, mankind can suffer consequenses, why do you still try to argue that I do not believe that, when I do. Your problem is that I simply do not agree with you concerning what those consequenses are.

I'm not arguing...sorry to disappoint you. This wasn't put forth to convince you. (nor is it my problem)

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow

Two things that are parallel never converge..

Correct... those that "God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell," and "God did not spare the natural branches , he will not spare you either." ..........will never converge with those whom God is pleased to save.
Jesus calls that "a great chasim" ..which no one is able to cross over.