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Hebrews 10:26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins....
....when read in the light of the Spirit of Truth, and in the Spirit of understanding, means exactly what it says, and it is as simple as that.
It means that until you ARE a bonified, born-again, child of the Living God, can you live a day...a minute...without committing willfull sin...which makes you a child of the devil...it's either or...no midway point. You cannot serve two masters at the same time.
Until you Are a bonified, born-again, child of the Living God (who cannot be considered as such unless and until they have repented ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME, which is what true repentance is) who has been given The Knowledge of the Truth, who knows to keep the Ten Commandments of God, faithfully, NOT EXCLUDING the 4th Commandment, which is to REMEMBER! to Keep the sabbath holy unto God (7th Day sabbath - Saturday), THEN! once you have received this truth, and then go and willfully commit sin...THERE IS NO MORE SACRIFICE LEFT FOR THE REST OF YOUR SINS. You are d-o-n-e...read Hebrews 10:26.
Anyone who still lives their lives committing willfull sin, is not a child of God...does not know Him, whether or not they think they do...they do not.
...and God does not know them either. There IS NO right relationship there whatsoever between God and this willfull sinner...NONE.
Hi Verna..First of all, I hope you noticed I never took a position other than saying there are verses that seem to suggest otherwise (heres a few that "suggest" it: Bible passages supporting permanent salvation which you can feel free to discuss with others or panic about if you want ), I merely criticized your panicking over a very common position in the Christian faith held or at least partially held by many denominations. Secondly, if your looking for a debate, its probably not going to happen with me since I really don't have time for it unless it gets really good Lastly, if you really want to know certain arguments used to support the idea that a christian can't loose their salvation, go look it up yourself. I'll give you a hint on where to start: "Baptist" (which I am not btw)....oh ok, one more: "John Calvin"
Last edited by Jrhockney; 11-18-2011 at 12:49 AM..
Reason: Added hint.
Another question would be: Can a sinner who believes in Jesus Christ get to heaven?
Well, if not, then no one is going to heaven, since we are all sinners.
That's better-worded than mine.
People here are getting side-tracked and focusing on *adultery* as if it's somehow "special." But it isn't. I could've used "lying" or "coveting" or "pride."
So let's try again:
What if a believer in Jesus Christ has a heart full of pride, and goes to bed and dies in his sleep. Will he go to heaven?
If yes, then it's not true that you can't get to heaven with sin (because pride is a sin).
If no, then it's not true that ONLY faith is required in order to get in.
"Can an adulterer who believes in Jesus Christ get to heaven?"
The answer is:
Absolutely NOT!
This is just so unbelievable...........I don't know where to begin.
Not a clue what faith in Jesus Christ is. This is truly sad to behold...and I will pray for you and others who believe this lie...that one can sleep with their neighbors spouse, and go home and tell the partner of whom they just slept with that they believe in Jesus Christ....and God is pleased with this and says, "I love this adulterer who just slept with their neigbor's spouse and came home and told the partner of the neighbor he/she just slept with that she believes in my Son".....ummmm....I would fair to venture that God was more like sick to His stomach...in complete anguish of heart over this....do you not get this...? Brian...? come on...I just cannot believe this.................wow. Incredible...simply incredible.
....my heart hurts.
I think I know how God feels right now....
Interesting. Very interesting, indeed....
Yet, among the ancient Hebrews, neither adultery, nor polygamy was against God. Solomon, with more than 300 wives (polygamy) and over a hundred concubines (adultery) did not fall out of favor with God until he allowed the women to influence his thinking. Moses didn't lose favor for having had two wives. It was for striking the rock with his staff instead of touching it.
I find it fascinating how people read things into Biblical text because that's what they want to find there. The fact is that the text is so ambiguous that anyone can find anything they want in it. The case against adultery is far more to do with social pressure than religious text.
Another question would be: Can a sinner who believes in Jesus Christ get to heaven?
Well, if not, then no one is going to heaven, since we are all sinners.
Yes, we are all sinners, but ONLY believing, repentant sinners will go to heaven. Sinners must make their hearts right with God. Believers who continue to live in sin and do not repent and obey God's commandments will not go to heaven. That is not my HO, it's what the scriptures teach.
Yes, we are all sinners, but ONLY believing, repentant sinners will go to heaven. Sinners must make their hearts right with God. Believers who continue to live in sin and do not repent and obey God's commandments will not go to heaven. That is not my HO, it's what the scriptures teach.
Katie
But the question is, what happens if a believer is sinning when he/she dies? What if you have "hidden" sin in your life? Will you be allowed to enter heaven?
If so, then sinners are allowed into heaven. If not, then "faith alone" is not sufficient.
But the question is, what happens if a believer is sinning when he/she dies? What if you have "hidden" sin in your life? Will you be allowed to enter heaven?
If so, then sinners are allowed into heaven. If not, then "faith alone" is not sufficient.
Blessings,
brian
Faith is not faith if mixed with willfull sin. To even suggest that merely words spoken from lying lips accompanied by sinful deeds is sufficient enough to be labeled "faith" is nothing short of an abomination. Willfull sinners will not receive eternal life...read this passage again Brian...1 John 3:6 states (and is totally supported by Scripture as a whole), "No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him."...and...1 John 3:8"Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."...and...1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show his faith in love by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James 2:18 Now someone may argue, "Some people have faith; others have good deeds." But I say, "How can you show me your faith if you don't have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds."
James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
...and the faith spoken of in these passages above is true faith, not a false faith mixed with willfull sin.
Faith is not faith if mixed with willfull sin. To even suggest that merely words spoken from lying lips accompanied by sinful deeds is sufficient enough to be labeled "faith" is nothing short of an abomination. Willfull sinners will not receive eternal life...read this passage again Brian...1 John 3:6 states (and is totally supported by Scripture as a whole), "No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him."...and...1 John 3:8"Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."...and...1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show his faith in love by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James 2:18 Now someone may argue, "Some people have faith; others have good deeds." But I say, "How can you show me your faith if you don't have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds."
James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
...and the faith spoken of in these passages above is true faith, not a false faith mixed with willfull sin.
^^^^
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Agreed. Faith is not sufficient.
blessings,
brian
^^^^
Agreed. True faith, alone, is not sufficient.
Faithlessness and willfull sin is of the devil, and God has nothing to do with it...and will not afford anyone who lives their lives in this manner the gift of eternal life. Agreed.
Yet, among the ancient Hebrews, neither adultery, nor polygamy was against God. Solomon, with more than 300 wives (polygamy) and over a hundred concubines (adultery) did not fall out of favor with God until he allowed the women to influence his thinking. Moses didn't lose favor for having had two wives. It was for striking the rock with his staff instead of touching it.
That's why I have many problems with the Old Testament. I believe the OT scriptures testify of Jesus Christ, but that doesn't make everything you read in them righteous. What about God being the same yesterday, today, and forever???? So people pick and choose how they want to interpret the bible (as you said). We must have a relationship via the Spirit of God - a personal walk. My personal walk is not anyone else's personal walk. If I stumble, God is able to lift me up. Also Jesus taught that you don't actually have to "do the deed" to commit adultery - that it happens in the heart. Same with murder. So people should be careful how they judge because with the same judgement they dish out will be meted back to them. Therefore, if you are looking down on your brother for his sin (it is likely that you are guilty of the very same sin). Then there is that place in the NT that says if you are guilty of even ONE SIN you are guilty of ALL. Just some food for thought. People should focus on their own sin problem - not the sin problems of others.
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), I merely criticized your panicking over a very common position in the Christian faith held or at least partially held by many denominations. Secondly, if your looking for a debate, its probably not going to happen with me since I really don't have time for it unless it gets really good 
Lastly, if you really want to know certain arguments used to support the idea that a christian can't loose their salvation, go look it up yourself. I'll give you a hint on where to start: "Baptist" (which I am not btw)....oh ok, one more: "John Calvin"
