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I saw a poster on another thread who wanted to be baptized in such a church and I simultaneously reflected upon several things.
1. Most churches that call themselves "Christian Non-denominational" are fundamentalist, believe in adult baptism, and adhere very closely to Baptist theology.
2. So why not just say "baptist"? That would be the general thrust of the program there. I read that a poll conducted about 20 years ago said that many Americans had unfavorable opinions of Baptist Churches. Could it be that all of these new "Christian Centers", that don't even want to use the word Church; or "Family Life Centers" are attempting to avoid the effect of labeling?
Because it seems to me, when you look at their websites, and you get past all the "come as you are we don't care" open mindedness, and you bye pass all of the contemporary music, support groups, child care and health clubs, that if you check out the statement of faith, it will be just as repressive as the church with an actual denomination and an organ.
3. Why are PEOPLE so attracted to churches with out denomination? Personally, there are about three other than my own that I would feel completely comfortable worshiping at.
4. Yes a few of these Churches are not baptist but are more Pentecostal or Charismatic. They usually warn or invite the church seeker with a few words such as "full Gospel" or "spirit filled"
Most seem Baptist. And itf that is what you want go for it.
Personally, I have a deep mistrust of non-denominational churches. To be sure, many if not most do their level best to serve God. The problem to me is that they rely on the charisma of its leader rather than on any coherent theological approach. There are no checks and balances. There is usually just the driving force of one guy. And while his intentions are good to begin with, we all know that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So the bigger the non-denominational church, the more its an edifice to the guy in charge. And having attended a few non-denominational services in my time, I always come away struck by the total lack of content. Sure there's a rock band and lots of easy bromides, but that's about it. To me, it's nothing more than the Entertainment Disease infecting the act of worship. To each their own. It's just not for me.
By belonging to a larger denomination, you know that there are likely to be some kind of institutional control in place, the kind of control to ensure that the pastor isn't driving a Mercedes to work and generally siphoning off tithes to fill his own bank account. And because he's developed an almost cultlike following among his flock, a congregation that typically check their collective heads at the door, nobody has either the brains or the nerve to challenge him.
Personally, I have a deep mistrust of non-denominational churches. To be sure, many if not most do their level best to serve God. The problem to me is that they rely on the charisma of its leader rather than on any coherent theological approach. There are no checks and balances. There is usually just the driving force of one guy. And while his intentions are good to begin with, we all know that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So the bigger the non-denominational church, the more its an edifice to the guy in charge. And having attended a few non-denominational services in my time, I always come away struck by the total lack of content. Sure there's a rock band and lots of easy bromides, but that's about it. To me, it's nothing more than the Entertainment Disease infecting the act of worship. To each their own. It's just not for me.
By belonging to a larger denomination, you know that there are likely to be some kind of institutional control in place, the kind of control to ensure that the pastor isn't driving a Mercedes to work and generally siphoning off tithes to fill his own bank account. And because he's developed an almost cultlike following among his flock, a congregation that typically check their collective heads at the door, nobody has either the brains or the nerve to challenge him.
Make the attempt to challenge a denomination even with factual evidence and see where you get.
Make the attempt to challenge a denomination even with factual evidence and see where you get.
Depends on the denomination. The obvious example one would make is the Catholic church and the rampant sexual abuse problem. On the other hand, other denominations have very active and aggressive efforts to smoke out any misbehavior on the part of its clergy and administration. I remember an Episcopal rector who began an affair with the church organist. The day the bishop learned of the wrongdoing, he cancelled all appointments and drove to the church in question. He confronted both parties, learned that the rumors were true, and fired them immediately.
Most mainline denominations in fact have some pretty stringent safeguards in place. There are a lot of mechanisms in place to audit church books. Clergy have to undergo periodic counseling and evaluation. And in some denominations such as the Methodist church, ministers are transferred like clockwork every four years, chiefly to ensure that no private fiefdoms are established.
I saw a poster on another thread who wanted to be baptized in such a church and I simultaneously reflected upon several things.
1. Most churches that call themselves "Christian Non-denominational" are fundamentalist, believe in adult baptism, and adhere very closely to Baptist theology.
2. So why not just say "baptist"? That would be the general thrust of the program there. I read that a poll conducted about 20 years ago said that many Americans had unfavorable opinions of Baptist Churches. Could it be that all of these new "Christian Centers", that don't even want to use the word Church; or "Family Life Centers" are attempting to avoid the effect of labeling?
Because it seems to me, when you look at their websites, and you get past all the "come as you are we don't care" open mindedness, and you bye pass all of the contemporary music, support groups, child care and health clubs, that if you check out the statement of faith, it will be just as repressive as the church with an actual denomination and an organ.
3. Why are PEOPLE so attracted to churches with out denomination? Personally, there are about three other than my own that I would feel completely comfortable worshiping at.
4. Yes a few of these Churches are not baptist but are more Pentecostal or Charismatic. They usually warn or invite the church seeker with a few words such as "full Gospel" or "spirit filled"
Most seem Baptist. And itf that is what you want go for it.
The whole thing seems deceptive.
Well, I do not think it is intentionally deceptive, I think you have people thinking that a certain way of representing Christ has been detrimental to that end, so they take a path hoping that they can represent Christ better. There is nothing inherantly wrong with that.
Many non denominational churches also simply are that way so that they are not subject to corporate style of dictation. For instance the baptist church I grew up in was subject to the southern baptist convention. As a result all church functions had to meet certain standards. One such statndard as an example is that all sunday school classes had to be led out of approved southern baptist material. A pastor found leading such a church apart from that could potentially be barred from preaching in any southern baptist church and lose any benefits for retirement.
On that level it is simply many churches teaching pretty much the same thing and perhaps they are self decieved that it makes any real difference that they call themselves something other than what the church down the street does,
I saw a poster on another thread who wanted to be baptized in such a church and I simultaneously reflected upon several things.
1. Most churches that call themselves "Christian Non-denominational" are fundamentalist, believe in adult baptism, and adhere very closely to Baptist theology.
2. So why not just say "baptist"? That would be the general thrust of the program there. I read that a poll conducted about 20 years ago said that many Americans had unfavorable opinions of Baptist Churches. Could it be that all of these new "Christian Centers", that don't even want to use the word Church; or "Family Life Centers" are attempting to avoid the effect of labeling?
Because it seems to me, when you look at their websites, and you get past all the "come as you are we don't care" open mindedness, and you bye pass all of the contemporary music, support groups, child care and health clubs, that if you check out the statement of faith, it will be just as repressive as the church with an actual denomination and an organ.
3. Why are PEOPLE so attracted to churches with out denomination? Personally, there are about three other than my own that I would feel completely comfortable worshiping at.
4. Yes a few of these Churches are not baptist but are more Pentecostal or Charismatic. They usually warn or invite the church seeker with a few words such as "full Gospel" or "spirit filled"
Most seem Baptist. And itf that is what you want go for it.
The whole thing seems deceptive.
Typically they call themselves non-denominational because they don't belong to a denomination.
But yes...many of them tend to be very fluffy in their doctrine and are more focused on meeting the felt needs of the members than teaching sound doctrine. Of course, there are many mainline denominations that are going that route today, too.
Depends on the denomination. The obvious example one would make is the Catholic church and the rampant sexual abuse problem. On the other hand, other denominations have very active and aggressive efforts to smoke out any misbehavior on the part of its clergy and administration. I remember an Episcopal rector who began an affair with the church organist. The day the bishop learned of the wrongdoing, he cancelled all appointments and drove to the church in question. He confronted both parties, learned that the rumors were true, and fired them immediately.
Most mainline denominations in fact have some pretty stringent safeguards in place. There are a lot of mechanisms in place to audit church books. Clergy have to undergo periodic counseling and evaluation. And in some denominations such as the Methodist church, ministers are transferred like clockwork every four years, chiefly to ensure that no private fiefdoms are established.
Rephrase. Make the attempt to challenge any denomination's hierarchy on a soteriological issue. Even with inconvertible factual evidence they will never conceed to even one point you make. As a matter of fact they will not even dare give you an audience. However there is no denomination or nondenominational church in contemporary "Christianity" which does not have the same soteriological error.
I saw a poster on another thread who wanted to be baptized in such a church and I simultaneously reflected upon several things.
1. Most churches that call themselves "Christian Non-denominational" are fundamentalist, believe in adult baptism, and adhere very closely to Baptist theology.
2. So why not just say "baptist"? That would be the general thrust of the program there. I read that a poll conducted about 20 years ago said that many Americans had unfavorable opinions of Baptist Churches. Could it be that all of these new "Christian Centers", that don't even want to use the word Church; or "Family Life Centers" are attempting to avoid the effect of labeling?
Because it seems to me, when you look at their websites, and you get past all the "come as you are we don't care" open mindedness, and you bye pass all of the contemporary music, support groups, child care and health clubs, that if you check out the statement of faith, it will be just as repressive as the church with an actual denomination and an organ.
3. Why are PEOPLE so attracted to churches with out denomination? Personally, there are about three other than my own that I would feel completely comfortable worshiping at.
4. Yes a few of these Churches are not baptist but are more Pentecostal or Charismatic. They usually warn or invite the church seeker with a few words such as "full Gospel" or "spirit filled"
Most seem Baptist. And itf that is what you want go for it.
The whole thing seems deceptive.
My person opinion is that the term "non-denominational" is a farce. There is no such thing. It's just the denomination of the pastor. Denomination means division. If he agreed with any other denomination, he would go to that church or be a pastor for that denomination. The pastor has a set of beliefs. Don't ever forget that. So "non-denominational" is just a term used for a first line break off and another protestant denomination.
My person opinion is that the term "non-denominational" is a farce. There is no such thing. It's just the denomination of the pastor. Denomination means division. If he agreed with any other denomination, he would go to that church or be a pastor for that denomination. The pastor has a set of beliefs. Don't ever forget that. So "non-denominational" is just a term used for a first line break off and another protestant denomination.
Totally incorrect. Way off. Moderator cut: edit
It's not uncommon for a pastor to switch denominations to get a position. I've pointed out that I'm being considered for a job in an Evangelical Free church...but I'm not of that denomination. It's perfectly compatible with my background. The difference is the way the denomination is organized, and the church polity. That's about it. My church is elder-led. The pastor is an elder and can vote...but he doesn't just decide to do whatever he wants. If I don't get the position, I will likely go to another church, possibly the same denomination, possible an independent Bible Church, or non-denominational.
This doesn't mean all non-denominational churches are good or bad. Unfortunately, in the last 20 years we're seeing a rise in evangelical churches that are ignoring doctrine in lieu of feel-good entertainment-driven services. But it's not all of them that are doing that.
Last edited by june 7th; 01-04-2012 at 09:25 AM..
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