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My daughters had extensive Bible studies in Catholic High School, but it was done from an academic point of view. They also studied all other religions. As an elective one of my kids had history of the Catholic Church and they included ALL the bad parts of church history. Catholicism has come a long way since the old days.
What I know about John is that it is the oldest gospel and may have been written by a disciple of John. I may read the NT from cover to cover one of these days.
BTW, one of my daughters got married to a Quaker and they worship in a very simple building with no religious ornamentation and no minister. They even get married without the minister and simply say wedding vows to each other. My kids are very open minded.
Sounds like your daughter had a very beautiful wedding. I love the idea of a simple building without ornamentation.
I am thankful to God that you would consider reading the Bible. You will never regret it.
Thank you for all of your posts. I've enjoyed our discussion. I'm in the process of putting a new thread together, so I will see you there I hope.
Sounds like your daughter had a very beautiful wedding. I love the idea of a simple building without ornamentation.
I am thankful to God that you would consider reading the Bible. You will never regret it.
Thank you for all of your posts. I've enjoyed our discussion. I'm in the process of putting a new thread together, so I will see you there I hope.
God Bless,
Katie
My daughter found an open minded liberal Catholic priest that did her wedding even though her H is not Catholic. I think she always wanted a Catholic wedding and her Quaker H went along with it.
All my kids are very open to other religions despite 12 years of catholic education.
969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."510
970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."511 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."512
Mary is Co-Mediatrix and Co-Redemptorist only in the sense that she gave birth to Christ, to the one mediator of our salvation, and so in that way participated in our salvation. No Catholic, either in the heirarchy or laity, say or believe that she alone is a mediator of salvation, or that she is a goddess.
IV. "You Shall Not Make For Yourself a Graven Image . . ."
2129 The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: "Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure...."66 It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel. "He is the all," but at the same time "he is greater than all his works."67 He is "the author of beauty."68
2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.69
2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.
2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:
Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. the movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.71
The Jews of the Old Covenant were prohibited from making an image of God because none of them ever actually saw Him amd therefore could not create an accurate representation, and their guesses could lead them into idolatry, into eventually worshiping the image and forgetting about the one, true God it was suppose to represent....God became visible to all men in the incarnation and person of Jesus Christ, so since we now know what the one, true God really looks like and not just base it on guesses or our own imaginations, it is ok to make a representation of Him.
And fyi: The RCC officially teaches that the Bible is the written Word of God (as opposed to the oral Word of God-Tradition) and that the writers of it were inspired by God.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-22-2012 at 09:44 AM..
Reason: it is noted thank you and report bad posts OK?
There is one explanation that makes sense to me that I will never forget why many catholics pray to Mama Mary. Remember the very first miracle of Jesus in wedding of canaan? turning water into wine? HE is not supposed to do that yet(perform miracles) as HE clearly told her, but Jesus can't say NO to HIS mom.
So it's like if you pray your request to her, and she will help your request be mediated to Jesus or something like that. Jesus can't say NO to your request. lol.
Plus, if Mama Mary said no to God's proposition of virgin birth... then the plan for salvation won't come to be since Jesus won't be given birth... isn't it? She gave birth to our Savior.
Having said that, when I pray, I pray directly to God the father, always, for some reason.
Why such blatant disrespect for the mother of our (and your's, I presume)Lord and savior Jesus Christ? Would you like it if I spoke of your mother in such a way? What ever happened to "Honor thy mother and thy father"?
Originally Posted by Katzpur I don't understand what's wrong with that. I have no interest in converting to Catholicism, but the fact of the matter is that Jesus Christ established one Church, not many. I'm sure he would like it very much if Christians were more unified than they are right now.
The different sects and denominations aren't the church. The believers are the church. I consider all believers to be "the church" regardless of their denomination or sect.
The RCC is not a sect or denomination. There were no sects or denominations in Apostolic times and first few centuries of the Church, just one Church as led by the Apostles and then by their successors (the Bishops, called "Patriarches" in the EOC, all the way down to today), that one Church is still in existence as the RCC and the Eastern Orthodox.
The RCC is not a sect or denomination. There were no sects or denominations in Apostolic times and first few centuries of the Church, just one Church as led by the Apostles and then by their successors
A study of early Christian history says quite the opposite. By the end of the first century, there were as many as 100 different Christian groups. I have a hunch that none of them believed that they were anything other than the one Jesus Christ established.
A study of early Christian history says quite the opposite. By the end of the first century, there were as many as 100 different Christian groups. I have a hunch that none of them believed that they were anything other than the one Jesus Christ established.
Only one is based on apostolic succession.
Only one is the church of Christ and that is the RCC.
The RCC is not a sect or denomination. There were no sects or denominations in Apostolic times and first few centuries of the Church, just one Church as led by the Apostles and then by their successors (the Bishops, called "Patriarches" in the EOC, all the way down to today), that one Church is still in existence as the RCC and the Eastern Orthodox.
Actually there were denominations even during apostolic times. The Bible speaks of the Nicolaitians, and you read about the gnostics very early on as well.
Mary is Co-Mediatrix and Co-Redemptorist only in the sense that she gave birth to Christ, to the one mediator of our salvation, and so in that way participated in our salvation. No Catholic, either in the heirarchy or laity, say or believe that she alone is a mediator of salvation, or that she is a goddess.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7F.HTM:
The Jews of the Old Covenant were prohibited from making an image of God because none of them ever actually saw Him amd therefore could not create an accurate representation, and their guesses could lead them into idolatry, into eventually worshiping the image and forgetting about the one, true God it was suppose to represent....God became visible to all men in the incarnation and person of Jesus Christ, so since we now know what the one, true God really looks like and not just base it on guesses or our own imaginations, it is ok to make a representation of Him.
And fyi: The RCC officially teaches that the Bible is the written Word of God (as opposed to the oral Word of God-Tradition) and that the writers of it were inspired by God.
I found your FYI very interesting. I have never seen the official position of the RCC on the Bible being the inspired word of God. If you could post a link for that, I would appreciate it.
Only one is the church of Christ and that is the RCC.
The other 99 sects did not make it.
Yes, I know that's what you believe. I don't. I don't believe any of them "made it." Still, I'm not out to bash Catholicism. I'll leave that to more interested parties.
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