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The disciples were not saved until Pentecost because the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost would not be given until Jesus was no longer present with them as the Father will send the Comforter in Jesus's name.
John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also......
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So the condition for the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost to be sent from the Father was when Jesus was no longer physically present with them.
So the filling of the Holy Ghost in Matthew 10th chapter which included the unbeliever & betrayer, Judas Iscariot was not for salvation and neither was the John 20th chapter event for salvation which did not include the Thomas the disciple.
Jesus has to be no longer physically present for His disciples and new believers to receive the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ, and so the disciples were not saved until the day of Pentecost.
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Jesus was not glorified until He had ascended to Heaven for us in preparing a way for us to be adopted as citizens of Heaven.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit is receiving the promise of eternal life from Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
To be born again is to be born of the Spirit and that comes about by believing in Jesus Christ.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Jesus answers how as to when one is born again for it will happen after He had been crucified & after He had ascended.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So the 2 times that Jesus had given the Holy Spirit while He was on earth was not the promise from the Father regarding our salvation. Therefore the remaining disciples were not saved until Pentecost when His church was born with Him as the Head in Heaven.
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith......26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Question: Didn't Elijah do so before Jesus? In fact, isn't Elijah still doing so in his "chariot of fire."
"..no man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven" But didn't a woman, Mary. in her Assumption go to heaven even though she didn't come down from heaven?
The Holy Spirit is he who is sent by the Father in the name of the Father and the son not in the name "Jesus". That name amounts to nothing. You can call on that name all night long but He won't listen.
The Holy Spirit is in he who keeps the commandments because he who keeps the commandments walks in the name of the Father and the son and is the Holy Spirit and son of man.
Whoever acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God.
The works I do in my Father's name bear witness that He sent me. I can do nothing on my own. I only say what the Lord has taught me for the One who sent me is with me He has not deserted me because I always do what pleases Him.
Question: Didn't Elijah do so before Jesus? In fact, isn't Elijah still doing so in his "chariot of fire."
"..no man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven" But didn't a woman, Mary. in her Assumption go to heaven even though she didn't come down from heaven?
The disciples were not saved until Pentecost because the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost would not be given until Jesus was no longer present with them as the Father will send the Comforter in Jesus's name.
So you are saying only when they (or anyone?) has the indwelling
Holy Spirit could they or anyone (?) be saved?
And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
When were they saved?....When they recognized that the guest within (and in all) is God..... The very thought of this being true is an abomination to the fundamentalist, but salvation to all who are aware of it, they no longer look to the hills or heaven above(outward things), but the kingdom within.
Question: Didn't Elijah do so before Jesus? In fact, isn't Elijah still doing so in his "chariot of fire."
"..no man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven" But didn't a woman, Mary. in her Assumption go to heaven even though she didn't come down from heaven?
Elijah and I believe also Enoch were taken to the upper atmosphere ( even though it is just written that Enoch was taken ) and at this moment traveling thru time when God will place them in Jerusalem during the great tribulations to serve as the two witnesses.
There are different references to the heavens;; as there are 3 of them.
The upper atmosphere as in the sky above;
Outer space heaven...
And the third Heaven where God dwells.
So... all the scripture lines up in truth wherein Elijah & Enoch were not taken to God's Heaven where no flesh and blood can inherit that kingdom of Heaven at all.
The disciples were "officially" saved when they died and GOD determined whether they were worthy of going to Heaven or not.
All those "in Christ" are already worthy. John, you really should read the Bible. Romans would help you a lot.
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