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"Since we are searching for the historical Jesus, I notice that on this site and in many peoples opinions, there is a strong misunderstanding about Catholicism/christianity. The church which Jesus claims He was going to build (Spiritually in Matt. 16:18-21) began at Pentacost around 33a.d.. This church thrived and grew by the day. The church's which had been planted continued to grow as the Apostle taught them. However the Roman Empire began to see christianity first as a harmless jewish cult and then as a possible enemy that needed to be dealt with. A series of persecutions began which also resulted in the deaths of Peter and Paul the apostles and eventually all the Apostles were dead except John who was banished to the island of Patmos where he wrote the book of Revelation. Jesus had already stated in advance in 33a.d. that John would live on to do a special work for Him (John 21:22-here Jesus says He will come back to deal with John which was fulfilled when Jesus gave to John the book of Revelation). Eventually all the Apostles died and the early church fathers continued on. Rome continued to persecute the true christian church which included the horrible death of being fed to the lions in the roman coliseum. The persecution of the church failed however because christians were so strong in their belief that Roman citizens saw that they were willing to die for their faith and many would become converted. The Roman Empire under Constantine eventually decided to legalize christianity in 450a.d. and even make it the state church. However, getting Roman Pagans to go along with this was not easy. Constantine was adamant to make this work because he was convinced he had seen a sign in the sky which was a cross saying "under this sign conquer". The Roman Empire decided to merge its religious pagan idol system with christianity and join them into one church. The Roman Catholic Church. The traditon of celebrating Tammuz 25 of dec birthday was now given to Jesus who was never born on dec 25th. All the pagan idols were eventually given the names of catholic saints. The church grew to enormous proportions and when the political Empire of Rome began its decline, the church became even stronger. During this time, there were remnants and pockets of true christians who resisted this great compromise. This time period is known as the Dark Ages where the catholic church stifled science by saying the earth was flat even though scientists and the Old Testament clearly stated it was circular (Isaiah 40:22 written around 700b.c). The Catholic church began to take all bibles and keep them from the people not wanting them to read the bible. Therefore this merger of paganism and christianity continues to this day. The Protestant Reformation however broke the chains of Rome and lead to a resurgence of the true gospel which is salvation by grace through faith plus nothing. This is where we stand today. Therefore as far as the inquisition, crusades , etc, these were not christians who did this, it was lead by the Roman Catholic church. I even heard one person on this site say Hitler was a christian. He was not a christian, he was a pagan member of the Thule Society which was an occult group who believed in Pan-Germanic paganism which is where the aryan thing came from as well as from theosophy which is a complicated occult system made up of hinduism/buddhism/kabbalah mixed with science and evolution. Hitler did idolize the Catholic church especially the way the Jesuits were set up and he used them as a model for his dreaded SS. It is possible to be saved in the Catholic church but there obstacles because the catholic church teaches many things one must do to be saved which conflicts with what the bible says in Ephesians 2:8-9."
"The bible is sufficient to establish that the RCC does not represent the Bible. Incidently, I grew up in the Catholic church and went to catholic school. I have been baptized, confirmed, etc. I know a little something about the RCC. I have been to the vatican many times with my family which is an Italian family. I can assure you that catholicism is not nor has it ever been bible based. I mean no offense to catholics. My points deal with catholic teachings and tradition not to catholics who love Jesus etc. But the cathoic church teaches works are necessary for salvation and this goes against the bible. The bible says anyone who adds to the gospel is to be accursed. This warning applies to the catholic church because it adds works to a gospel which the bible teaches is freely given and must be freely received. The bottom line is Martin Luther was correct.
Also, in Matthew 16 Jesus handed the keys of the Kingdom over to His church. This church began at pentecost. Not in 311ad.
I know that some catholics would disagree. I know this because I was once one. I went to catholic school for 8 years. I was never given a bible. This is common practice in catholicism. In catholic mass, there is no bible used, just quotations and bits and pieces to make sure that the conflicts between catholicism and christianity are never found out. Many priests like Martin Luther who read their bibles realized these conflicts and were forced to make the decision to leave the catholic church. Bottom line, catholicm became legal in Rome in 311 ad while christianity began in 33 ad. After this fact, what else is there really to debate?"
Nothing.. But are the readings of "bit and pieces" that you are referencing during catholic mass the sacrementary, eucharist, the Liturgy of the word?
Well I read it and it all sounds very knowledgeable with all the references to the original Greek text and the aorist tense of the various verbs. However for most of us who speak English and probably don't understand Greek I really can't believe that God doesn't want us to be able to understand His word just because our (English) language doesn't have enough variations in verb tenses. I do believe it's plain and simple enough for us poor ignorant English souls to comprehend.
By faith we are saved. That's simple enough. The rest follows. Like if my kids say to me "I love you." but then try to get out of doing their share of the chores and mess the place up, leaving a trail of empty cups and used plates and leave me to clear up after them and sort out their mess. The words may be saying "I love you." but the actions seem to say "I take you for granted." If they really love me then they 'muck in' and do their bit. Then I help them with their projects and we all end up a lot happier. I know that's simplifying things a bit, but I like to make things simple rather than complicated.
I'd love to debate with Petersansone but this final paragraph precludes me from doing so:
However, I would like to comment that there is one error in the above statement. The Bible wasn't entirely originally written in Greek.
What I looked up because this is such an awesome experience for me especially with dojilynn and cg1 and many others who are knowlegeable in the Bible and the teachings,
I can learn from you, thanks
But anyway I found that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew from Genesis to Malachi
and a blend of Aramaic influence since tis was the old language in the ancient Assyria.
And the New Testment in Greek, but not the type of modern day Greek .The translations were mostly written by the people that worked from the original languages. But since we have a different tongue, I thank the Lord that it's written in Basic English if I need it, so i can better understand. Even though the Hebrew and Greek are very impressionable. I enjoy all of it.
It is often said by Christian scholars that the Catholic church does not represent the christian faith or the bible. Can someone tell me why this is the case? S'pose I could do a Google search.....
I always took it that the Catholic Church is not Christian but is Papist and Jesus is their principle patron saint, or numero uno. But then, I also think religion is kinda screwed up anyway, being that it's more someone elses concept of reality.
What I looked up because this is such an awesome experience for me especially with dojilynn and cg81 and many others who are knowlegeable in the Bible and the teachings,
I can learn from you, thanks
But anyway I found that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew from Genesis to Malachi
and a blend of Aramaic influence since tis was the old language in the ancient Assyria.
And the New Testament in Greek, but not the type of modern day Greek .The translations were mostly written by the people that worked from the original languages. But since we have a different tongue, I thank the Lord that it's written in Basic English if I need it, so i can better understand. Even though the Hebrew and Greek are very impressionable. I enjoy all of it.
I edited this quote because I spelled cg81's name wrong, I apologize
Also, in Matthew 16 Jesus handed the keys of the Kingdom over to His church. This church began at pentecost. Not in 311ad.
I know that some catholics would disagree. I know this because I was once one. I went to catholic school for 8 years. I was never given a bible. This is common practice in catholicism. In catholic mass, there is no bible used, just quotations and bits and pieces to make sure that the conflicts between catholicism and christianity are never found out. Many priests like Martin Luther who read their bibles realized these conflicts and were forced to make the decision to leave the catholic church. Bottom line, catholicm became legal in Rome in 311 ad while christianity began in 33 ad. After this fact, what else is there really to debate?"
Well, as history, I was in catholic school for 13 years (K-12) in which we actually got into church doctrine, history, etc. Wanted to shoot myself. But anyways.. down to the meat of my disagreements
1) Catholicism/Eastern Orthodox both started at the same time which was the great schism. Before that you were a just christian and there were no set denominations. Christianity was the church of the Roman Empire, not Catholicism.
2) Bibles are used. I don't know wtf church you go to or school, but I know we read directly from the bible quite regularly.
3) Martin Luther left for a bunch of reasons. One of the MAJOR reasons he left was corruption of the church. When he left the vatican was allowing people to pay to go straight to heaven so they could build the Basilica and other buildings. Also, priests were among the wealthiest demographics in europe at the time and he had a particular problem with that. Also, he realized that the universe wasn't Heliocentric (believe the right term) as the church kept claiming. Also some slight diffrences such as no prayer to mary, and that host was jesus only during communion and afterwards reverted back to host. Relatively minor things imo. That's why Catholics and Lutherans probably have one of the closest relations of any church to catholicism (our catholic highschool was around 10% lutheran)
4) Again. Christianity became legal with constantine but was founded after the death of Jesus. After The Great Schism, there were 2 churches which then after another few years Protestant churches started appearing.
Obviously you didn't learn much in your catholic schooling, but in grade school, they don't put emphasis on catholic history or doctrine. It's a little bit of bible but not enough to actually get into the meat of it.
I always took it that the Catholic Church is not Christian but is Papist and Jesus is their principle patron saint, or numero uno. But then, I also think religion is kinda screwed up anyway, being that it's more someone elses concept of reality.
Christians came from the catholic church. The pope is the one that makes doctrine. I don't understand the part about papist. Do you mean that you think catholics worship the pope or something?
Basicly, catholicism if you analyze it is like polytheism.
You have your major Gods: God, Jesus, Holy spirit, Mary
and you have your Lesser Gods: Saints, Angels, Beatified people
Basicly, catholicism if you analyze it is like polytheism.
You have your major Gods: God, Jesus, Holy spirit, Mary
and you have your Lesser Gods: Saints, Angels, Beatified people
Whoa! I did not go to Catholic school and only converted 4 years ago, but this is going to really stir the pot.
Catholics worship ONE god, who is three persons in one. The TRINITY. We do not see Mary or any of the above listed "lesser gods" as gods. We do not worship them. We may pray to them for intercession, but we in no way worship them. IMHO
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I edited this quote because I spelled cg81's name wrong, I apologize
