Armed forces and Christianity. (God, Christians, pastors, America)
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By the fact that I directly said that not all war is justified. On the other hand that are times that war is justified. God ordered Israel to go to war. What do you not understand about that?
And throughout human history, any war in which freedom and lives are being defended is justified.
- Se-e, I knew you believed the same thing Laura did on Fox News.
To which you accused me of just rambling.
God is not concerned about people having freedom of rights to be equal.
For the Governing of themselves.
So God does not approve of wars through a Democracy.
I told you that your position cleary implies you think it is wrong to be in the military and follow orders to destry the enemy, as if the servicemen were on the wrong side of God, and you proved me correct in the very next post by posting something to imply Jesus was arguing against the military.
Jesus was a man of peace, everyone knows that, and peace should always be the goal, but the Bible also teaches that there are times for war. There are times when men need to rise up to defend those who cannot defend themselves, and a Christian man can also do that. As a matter of fact there are many Christians serving in the military.
You continue to make no sense. I posted a dozen pieces of Scripture that contradict your second paragraph. You refuse to address them, and it is clear why.
I also clearly and concisely explained Ecclesiastes and anyone who has a scholarly understanding of interpretation of Biblical genres knows. Let me be blunt: do more research an examination of your words before you speak any more.
I agree that not all war is justified and said so in post #34 where I said the following.
'Now, not all war is justified. But a just war is from God. 1 Chron 5:22 'For many fell slain, because the war was of God.'
Unless you have the ability to discern what specific war is a just war, then you're leading people astray. You keep quoting historical books and trying to extrapolate information improperly.
Stick to the plain Words of God. Not your assessment and subjective interpretation which is plain wrong.
No you did not state your case Biblically. You ignore the fact that the entire Bible is the word of God. How many times does the Bible have to say something in order for it to be true? Once!!!
Jesus Christ IS God. And God commanded the Israelites to destroy their enemies. Do you deny this?
Do you deny that the Bible says that a just war is from God? Answer the question.
A just war is from God. 1 Chron 5:22 'For many fell slain, because the war was of God.
Numbers 32:20-23 is part of a larger passage (Numbers 32:5-23) which talks about fighting a war in another country to protect your own country.
Num 32:20 So Moses said to them, "If you will do this, if you will arm yourselves before the LORD for the war, 21] and all of you armed men cross over the Jordan before the LORD until He has driven His enemies out from before Him, 22] and the land is subdued before the LORD, then afterward you shall return and be free of obligation toward the LORD and toward Israel, and this land shall be yours for a possession before the LORD. 23] But if you will not do so (by not going to war), behold, you have sinned against the LORD, and be sure your sin will find you out.
That passage says that it can be sinful not to go to war. Do you deny it?
Do you not believe what the Bible says?
There will be war until Christ returns. And under the principle of divine establishment a nation defends its freedom from hostile nations by having a strong and prepared military. And the believer in Jesus Christ has a duty to fight in defense of his country. He has a duty to defend the lives and freedom of his fellow man.
Every piece of Scripture you quoted is from historical books. And I quoted a dozen pieces of Scripture that were COMMANDS from Jesus Christ and His disciples and apostles.
If I picked up a historical book and George Washington was telling the Patriots to go to war against the Brits, does that justify me to do the same as an American? NO! It is a HISTORICAL BOOK! Stop interpreting it as commands. It is wrong and deceitful.
I stated my case bibically and Michael has gone around and around with you on the subject, you push certain scripture while ignoring what Jesus said so I see no use in going around in circles.
I just wish I had the ability to discern just and unjust wars like Mike.
The problem ends up being we can't, and yet some here would outright contradict and ignore Biblical commands on the grounds that they think they have the ability to discern just and unjust wars.
It will end up being arrogance (ignoring Scripture) stacked with self-righteousness (believing one has knowledge they do not have).
do more research an examination of your words before you speak any more.
I do not need your permission to speak. Your arrogant and disrespectful attitude is not in harmony with the book you are pretending to follow. If you fail to live by the book you preach, then who are you to use it to judge others, especially when the 'others' are the ones who are willing to lay down their own lives to save yours?
You have some great points. If a soldier is going to find justification with going to battle, they sure better recognize why they are going into battle.
Insofar as the Bible in regards to it: The 10 commandments says "thou shalt not kill." Jesus upheld this command. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise - that somehow killing is justified, is wrong. There is no compromise nor condition. A counter response, using Scripture to invalidate this command is both dangerous and treasonous to the Scripture.
That's the blunt, legalistic definition and I believe it holds up. Another poster up above talked about the mindset behind the motive to go to battle. This is terribly important if you do not choose to accept the Biblical command as universal; but this is a fine line to wander when the easy path would be to take the Word for what it is.
I agree that it is actually thou shalt not murder. There is definitely a place for war as many have pointed out throughout the Scripture. Killing an individual with malice and prethought is different than killing an individual out of defense that was attempting to rape your wife and kids for example.
This being said, I agree that any Christian entering the armed forces for America anyways get council from informed Christians that understand our politicians have a global agenda. No longer are American soldiers defending the constitution despite the propaganda we hear on the news. The oath to defend it is being superseded by UN interests. The United Nations, NATO, etc is all about globalism.
Christian soldiers would end up serving the purposes of the enemy - to bring in a one world order by force. As of course we see this in Lybia etc.
So I can not recommend Christians to join the American military now. There is testimony of Christian military folk that have rejected to serve the UN interests as they understand how it is against the constitution that they swore to defend. The result is that they are no longer in the military - honorable or dishonorable discharge I'm not sure.
The bottom line is a majority of Americans - Christians even - still have no clue about the corruption in Politics. There should be outrage and aggressive ground roots movement to replace them peacefully to re-establish checks and balances. But the machine rolls forward.
Of course God sets one ruler up and takes them down, so this is what Americans deserve for our Apostasy. The core issue is national repentance. Than everything could fix itself, but it does look to be too late. God in his sovereignty could bring a revival so the possibility is there.
The New World Order is now upon us. These folks have just not made it official - the stars need to align a certain way or something along those lines as they are occultists. Just look up the meditation room in the UN to see what they're all about. << It's not about Israel and certainly not about Biblical Christianity.
Unless you have the ability to discern what specific war is a just war, then you're leading people astray. You keep quoting historical books and trying to extrapolate information improperly.
Stick to the plain Words of God. Not your assessment and subjective interpretation which is plain wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_atw
Every piece of Scripture you quoted is from historical books. And I quoted a dozen pieces of Scripture that were COMMANDS from Jesus Christ and His disciples and apostles.
If I picked up a historical book and George Washington was telling the Patriots to go to war against the Brits, does that justify me to do the same as an American? NO! It is a HISTORICAL BOOK! Stop interpreting it as commands. It is wrong and deceitful.
You seem to be afraid to actually answer my questions and instead attempt to use absurd comparisons to evade them.
It is you are being deceived in your ignorance. Human government was established by God and so was the principle of human freedom. Jesus said there would be wars and rumors of war until He returns. And under the principle of divine establishment, military strength for the preservation of freedom is necessary for the protection of freedom. The principle of freedom through military strength is applicable throughout human history
Again, Jesus Christ is God. And it was God who commanded Israel to go to war.
Futhermore, Revelation 19 is future and relates that Jesus Christ Himself will slay the armies which oppose Him at His return.
I have spoken of the laws of divine establishment and the divine institutions in an earlier post, and you still have no idea what it's all about do you.
What kind of war is a just war? Any war in which life and freedom is being defended is a just war. Nationalism as a part of human government was set up by God to preserve the human race during the angelic conflict. A strong military protects the citizens of a nation from aggressive nations who would seek to invade and take away freedom.
Jesus Christ never said anything which cancels the fact that God established the principle of peace through military strength. A nation has a God given right to defend itself against aggressive nations, and the believer in Jesus Christ has a duty as a citizen of his country to help defend it.
Pacifism as I have said is not justified. It is not only cowardly, it is traitorous and evil as it promotes the destruction of divinely ordained human freedom.
And your attitude is an insult to all the brave men and women who fought and died in war so that you could be free.
Do you consider defending the lives and freedom of your countrymen to be hatred?
Deuteronomy 20:16
Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes.
If the President of the United States were to tell you that he was informed by God to use our vast military power to acquire an inheritance of land (let’s say, Iraq/Iran or Persia).
And "you shall not leave alive anything that breathes…" Would you consider it to be true – or – that of a hate crime?
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