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Yes indeed. He sat down with anyone who was seeking Him, and He still does that. Did He sit down with those who blasphemed the Holy Spirit? No, He knew their hearts and He knew they would never repent, so He simply told that their sins will never be forgiven. He knows the sinners God has given Him, and He will sit down with them.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
Finn, the points to the original OP are lost. It is all circular thought processes now.
Luckily, unlike verbal conversations, written threads save all the information.
If one needs examples, Scripture, interpretation, and thoughts - they can find them.
Illuin apparently believes that Jesus has no problem with liars, deceivers, and the sexually immoral.
Illuin does not recognize why Jesus denounced the religious leaders. Not because of WHO they were, but WHAT they were. The religious leaders were liars and hypocrites. One who does not repent of sins is a liar and a hypocrite. There is no difference - and not title makes a difference - whether called a Pastor or a prostitute. Sin is sin.
This is also revealed in your post and Shana's - even though she refuses to recognize it. Jesus knew Zaccheus' heart - He knew Zaccheus sought Him. I fear those who cannot tell a hard heart from a welcoming one. But Jesus can - and that's all that matters.
Illuin apparently believes that Jesus has no problem with liars, deceivers, and the sexually immoral.
Jesus had no problem with anyone bar the scribe and Pharisee. He could get through to the sinner by just showing up, the scribe and Pharisee on the other hand refused to look and see beyond the bone china beyond their self righteousness,and see that their cup was full of lie's, deception, sexual immorality, lust, murder,corruption and idolatry and whatever else they judged in others.
This is also revealed in your post and Shana's - even though she refuses to recognize it. Jesus knew Zaccheus' heart - He knew Zaccheus sought Him. I fear those who cannot tell a hard heart from a welcoming one. But Jesus can - and that's all that matters.
I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.
And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek me; Hello !!!!!!
I REVEALED myself to those who did not ask for me.”
God draws man by a revealing, Jesus Christ revealed himself to Zaccheus, the rest is history. Salvation CAME to his house.
The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts--so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.
Finn, the points to the original OP are lost. It is all circular thought processes now.
Luckily, unlike verbal conversations, written threads save all the information.
If one needs examples, Scripture, interpretation, and thoughts - they can find them.
Illuin apparently believes that Jesus has no problem with liars, deceivers, and the sexually immoral.
Illuin does not recognize why Jesus denounced the religious leaders. Not because of WHO they were, but WHAT they were. The religious leaders were liars and hypocrites. One who does not repent of sins is a liar and a hypocrite. There is no difference - and not title makes a difference - whether called a Pastor or a prostitute. Sin is sin.
This is also revealed in your post and Shana's - even though she refuses to recognize it. Jesus knew Zaccheus' heart - He knew Zaccheus sought Him. I fear those who cannot tell a hard heart from a welcoming one. But Jesus can - and that's all that matters.
It seems people come here to judge, smear and burn anyone who is somhow associated to the mythical "devilish religious spirit", which of course is any believer who does not believe in the universal salvation.
You are correct, sin is sin and rejection of God is rejection of God, and it does not matter which church you go to (or don't go) or what you do for living, be it a pastor or plumber. Jesus knows the hearts of people, like He knew the hearts of the sinners He sat down with, and He knew the hearts of the Pharisees who blasphemed against the Spirit.
This is enough to reveal that pcamps position is still square one - wrong.
Finn, twin, and I have revealed about 20 passages that refute this point, yet it is still made.
There is nothing left one can do. Every subsequent post by pcamps is more and more of the same thing.
What is sad is the massive abundance of information set forth to rebuke the idea. And how it is ignored.
Ah well. I'll take the mode of Jesus and exit stage right: onto something new.
All you have done is present Jesus Christ and the good news in the only way the devil knows how to. No amount of proving scripture to you from your bible will convince you at this time, for your heart is hardened and you are dull of hearing.
Really, What is tolerance? Accepting others beliefs as relivant even when the go against God? Accepting lifestyles which go against God? Accepting murder as birthcontrol? Is it tolerance or justification of immorality, justification of sin? There is no justification without Christ yet we are surrounded by false teachers who spread their false doctrines as if they are equal to or superior to the one true faith of Christianity. The tolerance of today is merely the immoral demanding acceptance while faining subjugation and being intolerant of the truth.
I didn't read through all the pages in this thread, but I want to point something out: there is a huge difference between tolerance and acceptance. Tolerance is when you put up with something that you find unpleasent or distasteful. Acceptance is when you feel nothing is wrong with it even if it is opposite of your view.
Example: You can tolerate your in-laws during Thanksgiving, but you would be more-than-happy to not see them the rest of the 364 days of the year.
You find your mother-in-law overbearing and annoying at times, but you know that she is a good person at heart and you treat her as one of the family.
Accepting others' Religious beliefs as relevant even when they "go against God" is acceptance.
Telling yourself that you have to "live with those people" is tolerance.
As an aside, didn't Jesus teach to turn the other cheek? To offer food to your enemy if your enemy is hungry?
As an aside, didn't Jesus teach to turn the other cheek? To offer food to your enemy if your enemy is hungry?
Actually, Proverbs talking about heaping burning coals on your "enemies'" head. Now, unless someone thinks heaping burning coals on someone is a good thing, then we can talk about that passage and how it is about tolerance. It's not, it's about destroying your enemy with kindness. It's not about healing them but dumping burning coals on them (technically though, conviction is healing them).
"Turn the other cheek" has nothing to do with tolerance of sinners. "Turn the other cheek" is in regards to someone would you try to hurt you.
Also, some religious tolerance is permitting one to continue to live outside of what that person considers to be Truth. That's the point - that Jesus was not always intolerant (He had no problem conversing with those who opposed Him) but exhibited intolerance to those who openly advocated lies and deception and sin.
Tolerance is not "huge" difference form acceptance. Tolerance is accepting through permitting. Like the argument put forth of the Catholic Nazi sympathizers in Germany. They did not kill a man directly but contributed indirectly to allowing Nazis to kill millions.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
Those who sought Jesus were welcomed. Those who rejected Him were allowed to wander away.
Last edited by michael_atw; 07-10-2012 at 10:05 AM..
Actually, Proverbs talking about heaping burning coals on your "enemies'" head. Now, unless someone thinks heaping burning coals on someone is a good thing, then we can talk about that passage and how it is about tolerance. It's not, it's about destroying your enemy with kindness. It's not about healing them but dumping burning coals on them.
"Turn the other cheek" has nothing to do with tolerance of sinners. "Turn the other cheek" is in regards to someone would you try to hurt you.
Also, some religious tolerance is permitting one to continue to live outside of what that person considers to be Truth. That's the point - that Jesus was not always intolerant (He had no problem conversing with those who opposed Him) but exhibited intolerance to those who openly advocated lies and deception and sin.
Hilarious
They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within uswhile he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"
It's about revealing Jesus Christ to us not dumping condemnation of sin upon us.
When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they RECOGNIZED him.
This is the result of the burning coals of God. The breaking of the bread reveals Jesus Christ.
It was the RELIGIOUS LEADERS that He denounced! His anger was focused on the hypocrisy of the so-called carriers of God’s word! They appeared clean on the outside, but inside were full of hate, greed, and wickedness! Those who gave tithes and fasted and prayed and loved the best seats in the synagogues to be seen of men, He rebuked! Those who loved being outwardly religious, but showed no love for Truth, He condemned! Those who distorted the word of God, who turned the truth of God into a lie, who misrepresented the nature of His Father, He called a generation of vipers — a brood of snakes! (Matthew 23:2-7,13-15).
The true sin Jesus was referring to was the sin of the religious hypocrites who condemn others! He was not speaking to the unbelievers out in the world! They don't read the Bible, or even know what is in it, so He is obviously not speaking to them! How would they even know? You've got things reversed, just like the Pharisees did.
Jesus set the example when He walked the Earth! The example was that Jesus never once told the drunk in the gutter, the gluttonous feasters, and reveling wine-bibbers with whom He ate and drank, the woman taken in adultery, the prostitutes, the greedy tax collectors, or the man full of demons, that they were of their father the devil. Not one sinner did He ever accuse of being a child of the devil! He reserved that for THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS! (John 8:44)
Agree, Illuin. Thanks for sharing. The religious leaders who were supposed to be teaching others about the true God were the ones that Jesus rebuked and condemned. They were the ones hardened, blind, full of dead men's bones. Realizing that Jesus ate and interacted with sinners does not mean that He accepted sin. This is how words have been twisted and the truth denied. God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-10-2012 at 10:05 AM..
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