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Old 05-12-2014, 12:20 AM
 
Location: California USA
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Quote:
quote=hd4me
In English, Jehovah has been the accepted representation of God's name for centuries.
Quote:
QUOTE=mshipmate;34746123 Things proves nothing. MANY things have been accepted for hundreds of years, doesn't make them true.
True yet we accept English transliterations of Biblical names without knowing the exact pronunciation and without being dogmatic.

IMHO the important point is to recognize that God has a name, use it reverentially and develop and maintain a close relationship with him.

Quote:
QUOTE=mshipmate;34746123 The name Jehovah came into being by the RCC by taking the vowel marks for the name Adoni and putting them under YHVH.

Also to say God's Name was written without vowels is incorrect. YHVH is also called 'the four letters' or Yod Hey Vav Hey
No, ancient Hebrew and hence God's name was originally written without vowels

You might find the following helpful...


https://www.christiancourier.com/art...s-of-the-bible

Last edited by hd4me; 05-12-2014 at 12:25 AM.. Reason: quotes
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Old 05-12-2014, 03:02 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,022,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
True yet we accept English transliterations of Biblical names without knowing the exact pronunciation and without being dogmatic.

IMHO the important point is to recognize that God has a name, use it reverentially and develop and maintain a close relationship with him.



No, ancient Hebrew and hence God's name was originally written without vowels

You might find the following helpful...


https://www.christiancourier.com/art...s-of-the-bible
"Our sacred literature does not use obscure language, but describes most things in words clearly indicating their meaning. Therefore it is necessary at all times to delve into the literal meaning of words to achieve complete understanding of what is actually meant."
--Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch (1808-1888)
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:42 AM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,990,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
True yet we accept English transliterations of Biblical names without knowing the exact pronunciation and without being dogmatic.

IMHO the important point is to recognize that God has a name, use it reverentially and develop and maintain a close relationship with him.



No, ancient Hebrew and hence God's name was originally written without vowels

You might find the following helpful...


https://www.christiancourier.com/art...s-of-the-bible
And I can put up two Hebrew sites, that I know of, I'm guessing there's many more, that will show you Yod Hey Vav Hey.

The Hebrew aleh-bet doesn't just have "Letters" as our English does. Each letter has a word, [as above] a number, and a picture associated with it, to show it's definition.

For example the word 'father' has a picture of a house and an ox which means 'the strength of the house.'

And I totally agree with you about God [which is just a title] has a Name, which is 'hidden' in the 3 best selling bibles by LORD which means YHVH or Yahweh.
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:54 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,389,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
And I can put up two Hebrew sites, that I know of, I'm guessing there's many more, that will show you Yod Hey Vav Hey.

The Hebrew aleh-bet doesn't just have "Letters" as our English does. Each letter has a word, [as above] a number, and a picture associated with it, to show it's definition.

For example the word 'father' has a picture of a house and an ox which means 'the strength of the house.'

And I totally agree with you about God [which is just a title] has a Name, which is 'hidden' in the 3 best selling bibles by LORD which means YHVH or Yahweh.
Keep in mind that the vowel signs etc were put there by the Masorites long after the OT was written. The oldest copies do not have them, as they were a guide for those who did not know the language. Just like today we see DR as Doctor, BLDG as Building, the Hebrews knew the vowels.

Plus all "H" in the middle of a word always takes a vowel and the most common is "o" and at the end of a word it is silent.

If we use the known rules we get: Ya (or Ye)-Ho-We(or Wah)-H (Silent)

Thus "Yahweh" leaves out the critical middle vowel as YHWH is a three syllable word, not two. In transliterating it we can see how it should be written and read by looking at names that are using part of God's name:

Yeho ram
Yeho shua
Yeho nadab

And many others and all consistently 'Yeho'. Thus with the final "W" we get a direct transliteration of:

"Yehowa" in Hebrew.

In English "Jehovah".

You must wonder why so many translators leave out God's name and use "Lord/God", thus hiding it, when Jesus said:

KJV John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Even the KJV leaves it in 4 times out of about 7000 times it is in the OT. Later translations just buried it even more.

KJV Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

How can we say we love someone if we do not know and never use (regularly) His name. After all do we, when introducing our wife or husband, just use the title or do we use their name and title? This is my wife Betty ... etc.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:10 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,022,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
And I can put up two Hebrew sites, that I know of, I'm guessing there's many more, that will show you Yod Hey Vav Hey.

The Hebrew aleh-bet doesn't just have "Letters" as our English does. Each letter has a word, [as above] a number, and a picture associated with it, to show it's definition.

For example the word 'father' has a picture of a house and an ox which means 'the strength of the house.'

And I totally agree with you about God [which is just a title] has a Name, which is 'hidden' in the 3 best selling bibles by LORD which means YHVH or Yahweh.
Aleph for the ox and ba for the tent put together and you get AB(B)A, Father...
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:09 PM
 
3,532 posts, read 6,422,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
You know JW's use God's name

You know, as a group, whether young and old they go out and spread the good news earthwide

As a group, it's not a one time deal in spreading the good news.

As a group, they view the Bible as God's word and use it to spread the good news. And yes they use the Watchtower as a tool.

Based on your posts you decry what individual JWs do wrong (debating, attacking, etc) so this implies familiarity with what JWs should do and by extension as a group what they are known for.

Thus I would say despite your thinking that many don't go out as much as one would think or that individuals have acted in a manner that you find inconsistent with their message they have, nonetheless, as a group, provided a witness to many people including yourself.
I was stating a fact from my own experience and from family members who have told me out of their own mouths what happens in their local JW congregations. What I won't do is make a generalization about one religion over the other by stating that my religion does this thing for God while other religions aren't doing the same, when I don't know what they are doing because I am not attending those religious services to see for MYSELF what they are doing. What gets me about some JWs, and it's not all of them because I have spoken to some who are kind, and just want to spread their beliefs to others who want to listen. But what I don't get is how some JWs praise their religion as if to say that if you are not a JW, then you are not in God's will because you don't either believe as they do, or you are not witnessing worldwide. But as I tried to share in the other post I made. Baptists, Mormons, and Catholics have missionaries all over the world, witnessing collectively, and just because they don't witness like the JWs, they are doing it, and are doing it as Jesus has commanded all of us to do. So let's stop this tit for tat nonsense. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe. Jesus is the way, the truth,a nd the life, and no man can come to the Father but through Him.
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Old 05-13-2014, 04:53 AM
Zur
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
I was stating a fact from my own experience and from family members who have told me out of their own mouths what happens in their local JW congregations. What I won't do is make a generalization about one religion over the other by stating that my religion does this thing for God while other religions aren't doing the same, when I don't know what they are doing because I am not attending those religious services to see for MYSELF what they are doing. What gets me about some JWs, and it's not all of them because I have spoken to some who are kind, and just want to spread their beliefs to others who want to listen. But what I don't get is how some JWs praise their religion as if to say that if you are not a JW, then you are not in God's will because you don't either believe as they do, or you are not witnessing worldwide. But as I tried to share in the other post I made. Baptists, Mormons, and Catholics have missionaries all over the world, witnessing collectively, and just because they don't witness like the JWs, they are doing it, and are doing it as Jesus has commanded all of us to do. So let's stop this tit for tat nonsense. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe. Jesus is the way, the truth,a nd the life, and no man can come to the Father but through Him.
The point is, JW have made the name Jehovah above all names, they replaced the name of Jesus (Acts 4:12), not even knowing, what is the true name of God. Once I had JW visitors and I praised the name of Jesus, they immediately left and never came back. I do not know why people pray to Jehovah or Jahwe, I pray to my heavenly Father as Jesus told me.
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Old 05-13-2014, 06:08 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,389,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
The point is, JW have made the name Jehovah above all names, they replaced the name of Jesus (Acts 4:12), not even knowing, what is the true name of God. Once I had JW visitors and I praised the name of Jesus, they immediately left and never came back. I do not know why people pray to Jehovah or Jahwe, I pray to my heavenly Father as Jesus told me.
Strange the Jehovah's Witnesses praise the name of Jesus and I have even seen songs in their song book doing so. Maybe your approach?

It is interesting that God, Jehovah (English equivalent of YHWH) is found about 7000 times in the Bible, including the NT. I think he want us to know and use it. It is also interesting that the tern God, used of God the father, is used more times than Jesus or Jesus Christ etc in the NT. If we follow scripture we exalt Jehovah God and then His Son, not one or the other, but both and the Father is first in the vast majority of the cases.

A couple of examples

KJV 1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

ASV 1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Old 05-13-2014, 06:45 PM
 
Location: California USA
1,714 posts, read 1,148,710 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Keep in mind that the vowel signs etc were put there by the Masorites long after the OT was written. The oldest copies do not have them, as they were a guide for those who did not know the language. Just like today we see DR as Doctor, BLDG as Building, the Hebrews knew the vowels.

Plus all "H" in the middle of a word always takes a vowel and the most common is "o" and at the end of a word it is silent.

If we use the known rules we get: Ya (or Ye)-Ho-We(or Wah)-H (Silent)

Thus "Yahweh" leaves out the critical middle vowel as YHWH is a three syllable word, not two. In transliterating it we can see how it should be written and read by looking at names that are using part of God's name:

Yeho ram
Yeho shua
Yeho nadab

And many others and all consistently 'Yeho'. Thus with the final "W" we get a direct transliteration of:

"Yehowa" in Hebrew.

In English "Jehovah".

You must wonder why so many translators leave out God's name and use "Lord/God", thus hiding it, when Jesus said:

KJV John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Even the KJV leaves it in 4 times out of about 7000 times it is in the OT. Later translations just buried it even more.

KJV Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

How can we say we love someone if we do not know and never use (regularly) His name. After all do we, when introducing our wife or husband, just use the title or do we use their name and title? This is my wife Betty ... etc.

Very imformative, thanks
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Old 05-17-2014, 07:50 PM
 
3,532 posts, read 6,422,283 times
Reputation: 1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
The point is, JW have made the name Jehovah above all names, they replaced the name of Jesus (Acts 4:12), not even knowing, what is the true name of God. Once I had JW visitors and I praised the name of Jesus, they immediately left and never came back. I do not know why people pray to Jehovah or Jahwe, I pray to my heavenly Father as Jesus told me.
Zur you make a very valid point. I always wondered that since we don't know the CORRECT pronunciation of God's name, is Jehovah a name something that we should be even using in any translations. But the excuse by a JW is that because they want to be identified by God's name, and by an acceptable name used in English then, it works for them. The sad reality is that there is no where in Scripture that teaches that we must call God by His name, and if His name is to be HALLOWED, then it would make more sense for all of us to take the stand that the Jews took. But if you are a JW, you better not address God as Jehovah or that's a terrible sin. I like what Isaiah said to the Jews and I quote:
These people [Jehovah's Witnesses] come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught
Isaiah 29:13 NIV.

MY, MY, MY, when you internalize these verses, they speak volumes when you think about all of the legalism that is hammered down through their Watch Tower Tract Society publications.
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