Does Theology trump what the Bible plainly declares! ? (crucifixion, hell, believe)
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I brought this verse up with my other brothers in my family:
"God will have all mankind to be saved . . . for Christ gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim.2:4-6).
My older brother responded:
"All mankind means those born before Christ who never knew Christ have/had a choice to make, and Christ gave them that choice after his crucifixion and before His resurrection. All mankind means those alive who knew Christ and those alive who didn’t know Christ – didn’t have an opportunity to choose. All mankind means all those who will be born and die without getting the choice. The rest of ALL mankind having been freed will have made their choice for or against Christ."
Five times in that short paragraph he used the words "choice" and "choose."
But looking back at 1 Timothy 2:4-6 I see the words "choose" and "choice" absent. I see God's saving of all mankind is based solely upon Christ ransoming all mankind.
Isn't it funny how people's theology gets in the way of believing the most simple of verses?
"God will have all mankind to be saved . . . for Christ gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim.2:4-6).
There are other verses that further support this one and the clear plan that CHRIST alone is the one and only way to Salvation for all mankind (AKA: It is God's will that everyone be saved ... But, sadly, nobody will come to God by any other Way than Christ). Unfortunately, UR theology tends to ignore hundreds of scriptures regarding 'condemnation' of those who reject/refuse to believe/do not trust God in Christ for their Salvation. However, scripture repeatedly makes it clear for all who have 'ears to hear and eyes to see' that Salvation is not simply automatic for everyone! -- As you pointed-out, God's people must learn to rely on the simple, clear proof of scripture --- and reject single verse, partial verse or out-of-context scripture ... along with those who seem blind to any scripture that contradicts their own biased theology. -- Thanks for your post!
I honestly believe that most of our theology is born out of a condemned heart and not fully understanding the love and grace of God. A heart that is not condemned cannot entertain the thought of eternal torment,for it is alien to what he's discovered about the nature and character of God( in my opinion anyway).
When Paul said that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst, he was not putting himself down with this as if he was a worm under condemnation(the kind of thinking that is at the root of the theology of men)he was magnifying the love and grace of God and its power to save the worst of us.
jghorton,
1. How can mankind be responsible to "choose to believe what Christ did" if it is God Who gives faith to believe?
2. How can one verse contradict another verse? For instance, if a set number of people are evangelized and some believe but some don't, why should this contradict the very plain evangel of 1 Timothy 2:4-6 of what Christ accomplished for both believer and unbeliever?
3. Since God "is the Saviour of all mankind, especially them that believe" it seems to me He is the Saviour of both groups due to Christ ransoming them.
Isn't it funny how people's theology gets in the way of believing the most simple of verses?
I agree:
Matt 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Nope. I don't let my theology prevent me from believing these simple verses..
Mike,
I sure am glad God is going to save all whose soul and body were destroyed in Gehenna.
I sure am glad God is going to save all mankind who are condemned (Romans 5:18,19).
I sure am glad God is going to save all mankind that won't see life (eonian life) in the next two eons.
And it is all based upon Christ ransoming all mankind!
So, Mike, we should not allow the verses you quoted to contradict the other verses of God saving all mankind. Rather we need to see how they harmonize with His goal.
I honestly believe that most of our theology is born out of a condemned heart and not fully understanding the love and grace of God. A heart that is not condemned cannot entertain the thought of eternal torment,for it is alien to what he's discovered about the nature and character of God( in my opinion anyway).
When Paul said that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst, he was not putting himself down with this as if he was a worm under condemnation(the kind of thinking that is at the root of the theology of men)he was magnifying the love and grace of God and its power to save the worst of us.
Exactly. The question, imo, is does theology OR what the Bible "plainly" declares OR our view of ourselves trump or nullify the love God has for all people? In people's minds, any of those things may seem to, but in reality, they cannot.
So, Mike, we should not allow the verses you quoted to contradict the other verses of God saving all mankind. Rather we need to see how they harmonize with His goal.
The only way to get the verses I cited to harmonize is to change the meanings of words of those verses and 100s of others.
I believe the main problem is that those who proclaim themselves to be of the election and thereby "saved" cannot tell you why they are saved. They only shout that they are saved but cannot fathom for what purpose they were saved.
Sad.
I believe the main problem is that those who proclaim themselves to be of the election and thereby "saved" cannot tell you why they are saved. They only shout that they are saved but cannot fathom for what purpose they were saved.
Sad.
If you presume to be "of the election", what do you believe the purpose to be?
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