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Were you going to answer my question? I'll repeat it: I'm just curious, Vizio, are you affiliated with any particular denomination? Or would you consider yourself non-denominational?
I am a pastor of a small country church. We are non-denominational. I actually used to belong to a church in the Fellowship of Evangelical Bible churches, prior to that I was part of the Christian and Missionary Alliance. All are very similar in doctrine with no major differences. I'd also think I'd fit very well in any E Free or most Baptist churches. I've preached in Baptist and Presbyterian churches.
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Originally Posted by Katzpur
Nope, just a different denomination.
Except that you worship a different God and have a different method of salvation.
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Furthermore, I never said one single solitary thing to imply that I'm trusting in my own self-righteousness.
So you're NOT trusting in faith alone after all you can do?
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As a matter of fact, I said the exact opposite. I said, "It (i.e. Mormonism) teaches that without the Atonement of Jesus Christ, not one of us could ever hope for salvation. It is through Christ's grace that we are saved, despite any and all good works we might do."
And, of course, all the good works you can do. I'm just curious how you can know you've done enough? You didn't answer my question: Are you keeping the Law?
Keep reading it. What is the "will of the Father"? It's to believe the one that he sent---Jesus. It's not to do good works.
I beg to differ, and so does the Bible.
Matthew 25:31-46 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. When shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I'm sorry if you don't get the simple fact that Jesus Christ was talking about obedience to His commandments here. He was talking about the necessity of feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned. If these aren't works, I don't know what you would possibly call them. And if you can't see the difference in how the sheep and the goats will be judged, then this conversation is quite simply over your head.
Matthew 25:31-46 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. When shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I'm sorry if you don't get the simple fact that Jesus Christ was talking about obedience to His commandments here. He was talking about the necessity of feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned. If these aren't works, I don't know what you would possibly call them. And if you can't see the difference in how the sheep and the goats will be judged, then this conversation is quite simply over your head.
Notice that the ones that were claiming to have done great things in Matthew 7 were told to get out?
Again I ask you: Have you kept the Law? Are you righteous before Christ?
I'm just curious how you can know you've done enough?
I basically answered that question when you asked it on another thread (regarding repentence). Here's what I said on that subject. The principle is essentially the same.
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You didn't answer my question: Are you keeping the Law?
To the utmost best of my ability. I would be a very ungrateful Christian if I weren't.
As I said a number of pages back, I'm only going to respond to posts in which you actually raise a new issue. I'm not going to waste my time going around in circles with you. I've addressed all of the questions you've asked at least once previously and I'm not going to keep saying the same thing over and over again, even if that's how you like to play the game.
Notice that the ones that were claiming to have done great things were told to get out?
Excuse me? It doesn't say that at all! How on God's green earth are you coming up with that? That is absolutely the opposite of what it's saying!
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Again I ask you: Have you kept the Law? Are you righteous before Christ?
Yes and yes. What about you? Oh wait, I forget... you don't need to be righteous. You just believe in Christ and bam! You're saved! You can go ahead and forget all about doing as He said to do. He never gave us any commandments anyway, did He? They were just "suggestions," and once you're "saved," you're on auto-pilot from there on out.
I basically answered that question when you asked it on another thread (regarding repentence). Here's what I said on that subject. The principle is essentiall the same.
I'm doing my best.
Then you haven't kept the Law, have you? "Doing your best" isn't the same as perfection.
You're like everyone else. You are a sinner just like me. Just like Paul talked about in Romans 2. You can't earn your salvation by good works or keeping the Law.
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As I said a number of pages back, I'm only going to respond to posts in which you actually raise a new issue. I'm not going to waste my time going around in circles with you. I've addressed all of the questions you've asked at least once previously and I'm not going to keep saying the same thing over and over again, even if that's how you like to play the game.
Here's the issue: You are relying on your own self-righteousness just like the Pharisees at the time of Christ. If you think you can be good by the Law, you're sadly mistaken and you are lost in your sin. Besides that, you worship a completely different God than Christians do.
I beg you to please consider the truth and come out of Mormonism.
Then you haven't kept the Law, have you? "Doing your best" isn't the same as perfection.
I am not perfect in and of myself, but I am "perfect in Christ."
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You're like everyone else. You are a sinner just like me. Just like Paul talked about in Romans 2. You can't earn your salvation by good works or keeping the Law.
And you're like everyone else, too, in that you appear to be incapable of understanding plain English. You know, Vizio, my degree was in English, with an emphasis on writing. I graduated magna-cumlaude and was elected to Phi Beta Kappa. I mention this for one reason only: I know for a fact that I am articulate and exceptionally adept at explaining what I believe and why I believe as I do. When I put as much effort into a conversation as I have into this conversation with you and you still insist on either flat out ignoring what I say or intentionally misinterpreting it, I know full well that you're not making even the most minimal attempt at understanding me.
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Here's the issue: You are relying on your own self-righteousness just like the Pharisees at the time of Christ. If you think you can be good by the Law, you're sadly mistaken and you are lost in your sin. Besides that, you worship a completely different God than Christians do.
Give it a rest, Vizio.
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I beg you to please consider the truth and come out of Mormonism.
I have found the truth, Vizio, and the truth has set me free. Please don't worry about my eternal salvation. My Savior has it all under control.
Once again, if you have something new to add to this conversation, I will respond to you. Otherwise, I've wasted enough time trying to have a dialogue with you.
I am not perfect in and of myself, but I am "perfect in Christ."
Then why does 2 Nephi say Faith after everything you can do. Have you done enough?
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And you're like everyone else, too, in that you appear to be incapable of understanding plain English. You know, Vizio, my degree was in English, with an emphasis on writing. I graduated magna-cumlaude and was elected to Phi Beta Kappa. I mention this for one reason only: I know for a fact that I am articulate and exceptionally adept at explaining what I believe and why I believe as I do. When I put as much effort into a conversation as I have into this conversation with you and you still insist on either flat out ignoring what I say or intentionally misinterpreting it, I know full well that you're the one with the problem and not me.
Yes--you are very nice, and articulate. You don't seem to be comprehending though, that Faith + "all you can do" is not the same as faith alone.
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Give it a rest, Vizio.
I have found the truth, Vizio, and the truth has set me free. Please don't worry about my eternal salvation. My Savior has it all under control.
Once again, if you have something new to add to this conversation, I will respond to you. Otherwise, I've wasted enough time trying to have a dialogue with you.
I said I'm done, Vizio. I've answered your questions. I've answered them on multiple occasions and in multiple ways. What part of "I'm done" don't you get?
we are not called simply to emulate Christ as our means of entry into heaven. A Christian is one who trusts in the sacrifice he made by dying on the cross in our place. We should be punished for our sin, but he took it instead of us. If you don't have Christ to pay for your sin you are going to have to pay for them yourself. Thus, the only way to God is to go through Christ.
2Pe 1:9 For the one in whom these things are not present is blind, being shortsighted, taking on forgetfulness of the cleansing of his sins in time past.
And how do we get around this one?...
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Please don't worry about my eternal salvation. My Savior has it all under control. 