Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That sounds like a pretty definitive statement you're making about others on this board. So please stop it.
Sorry if you are offended, but my view is not aimed particularly at anyone on this forum. It is generally true for all such views about these intractable issues. There can never be any infallible basis for human certainty in this area and bigotry is never justified in any area or against any people, in my view.
Quote:
Of course you don't think YOU are being arrogant. But you are judging others based on your own opinion.
But isn't that what you have been doing in this entire thread to the Mormon member here? I have been focused on the unjustified certainty, not the content of any specific doctrine and on the hurtful bigotry displayed in this thread.
Of course you don't think YOU are being arrogant. But you are judging others based on your own opinion.
I am 100% positive that Ironman would disagree with a great many LDS doctrines. I've got to say, though, that he has not come across as being the slightest bit judgmental or bigoted -- quite the opposite, in fact.
Sorry if you are offended, but my view is not aimed particularly at anyone on this forum. It is generally true for all such views about these intractable issues. There can never be any infallible basis for human certainty in this area and bigotry is never justified in any area or against any people, in my view.
But isn't that what you have been doing in this entire thread to the Mormon member here? I have been focused on the unjustified certainty, not the content of any specific doctrine and on the hurtful bigotry displayed in this thread.
You're the one using words like "NEVER". Then, you call me a bigot for saying that truth matters.
Yes--truth does matter. If we worship a god that doesn't exist, then God (the one that does exist) is going to judge us harshly. I'm sorry if that offends you...but I don't claim that all opinions are equally true.
Can you cite one Biblical example of God valuing sincerity over truth?
I'm sorry you think that's what I was saying, because it wasn't. I definitely believe that God wants each of us to believe that which is true and to reject that which is false. I simply don't think that when we stand before Him to be judged, He's going to be as concerned with whether we get all of the answers right as He is that we loved Him, loved His Son and loved our fellow men -- and that we were sincere in our desire to honor Him in all we did here on earth. Jesus Christ taught, "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." That's what I believe.
You're the one using words like "NEVER". Then, you call me a bigot for saying that truth matters.
Sorry, but I never called you anything, let alone a bigot. Of course, truth matters. The problem is believing you have the truth and those who disagree with you do not. That is simply not verifiable for these issues.
Quote:
Yes--truth does matter. If we worship a god that doesn't exist, then God (the one that does exist) is going to judge us harshly. I'm sorry if that offends you...but I don't claim that all opinions are equally true.
Truth does exist. But no opinions about it can be shown to be true over any others. I have been told that is why they are matters of faith, which in my view means personal preference. None of them can ever claim certainty and none of them should be the basis of bigotry toward any other. Mormons, Jehovans, or any other faith are ultimately opinions and the truth remains beyond our human grasp. That is why they remain Faiths.
Sorry, but I never called you anything, let alone a bigot. Of course, truth matters. The problem is believing you have the truth and those who disagree with you do not. That is simply not verifiable for these issues.Truth does exist. But no opinions about it can be shown to be true over any others. I have been told that is why they are matters of faith, which in my view means personal preference. None of them can ever claim certainty and none of them should be the basis of bigotry toward any other. Mormons, Jehovans, or any other faith are ultimately opinions and the truth remains beyond our human grasp. That is why they remain Faiths.
Can we be more tolerant? Are we not adults? I'm ok with you disagreeing with me and telling me I'm wrong. Can't we have an adult conversation about it without complaining about hurt feelings?
You don't want to take a stand and say someone is wrong...except those that take a stand and say someone is wrong? Whatever. I'm more tolerant than that. True tolerance is being able to disagree.
Can we be more tolerant? Are we not adults? I'm ok with you disagreeing with me and telling me I'm wrong. Can't we have an adult conversation about it without complaining about hurt feelings?
I have not complained about my hurt feelings. I have no dog in this fight. But you and others have been merciless in your assault of Katzpur and her religion. There is nothing tolerant about that no matter what you think you believe and no matter how sure you think you can be that you are right. It is all a matter of Faith and yours has no more basis for certainty than hers.
Quote:
You don't want to take a stand and say someone is wrong...except those that take a stand and say someone is wrong? Whatever. I'm more tolerant than that. True tolerance is being able to disagree.
You are free to THINK someone is wrong, but you have no basis to declare it as absolute truth. There is no tolerance in that. I cannot imagine how you can think there is. True tolerance is being able to disagree AND accept that you could be wrong and they could be right. Intolerance is when you insist that you are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong.
I have not complained about my hurt feelings. I have no dog in this fight. But you and others have been merciless in your assault of Katzpur and her religion. There is nothing tolerant about that no matter what you think you believe and no matter how sure you think you can be that you are right. It is all a matter of Faith and yours has no more basis for certainty than hers.You are free to THINK someone is wrong, but you have no basis to declare it as absolute truth.
Who says? You're not declaring that to be true, are you?
The truth we are talking about is in a specific area about which there is no infallible basis for determining what is truth that does not use human reason and interpretations. So, yes, I am declaring that to be true. Why would you pretend that we are talking about all truths? There are some that are verifiable. That is one of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman2
There is no tolerance in that. I cannot imagine how you can think there is.
pot...meet the kettle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman2
True tolerance is being able to disagree AND accept that you could be wrong and they could be right. Intolerance is when you insist that you are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong.
Let me know when you want to start practicing either of our definitions.
I make no absolute claims and my opinions proclaim no absolute certainty or truth over any others. You do, repeatedly and adamantly, against Mormonism and Katzpur's beliefs about it. I suspect you would be equally adamant about Jehovahs and their beliefs. Your intolerance would no doubt proclaim them not Christian. You do not allow that she or they could be right about anything. That is the difference between our understanding of tolerance.
The truth we are talking about is in a specific area about which there is no infallible basis for determining what is truth that does not use human reason and interpretations. So, yes, I am declaring that to be true. Why would you pretend that we are talking about all truths? There are some that are verifiable. That is one of them.
I make no absolute claims and my opinions proclaim no absolute certainty or truth over any others. You do, repeatedly and adamantly, against Mormonism and Katzpur's beliefs about it. I suspect you would be equally adamant about Jehovahs and their beliefs. Your intolerance would no doubt proclaim them not Christian. You do not allow that she or they could be right about anything. That is the difference between our understanding of tolerance.
uh huh. ok. spare us, please. As I said....we can be adults. We can agree to disagree and be tolerant. I'm willing to do that. Are you?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
