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Rodgertutt, please continue to share as you are led by God, as I am adding your resources to my references to share with others. God bless and peace.
Shana, I wonder if you have added the following information to your references?
Even more, I wonder if the ETers on this forum have read these two links.
I'm guessing that their response would probably be silence born of an attitude that thinks,
"Don't disturb me with new information because I have already made up my mind." :-)
The first link explains how the doctrine of endless punishment came into Christianity.
The second link shows that most of the early Christians believed in universal salvation. And they were reading the Bible in its original language!
Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years Contents - Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine of the Early Church
The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragableproofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.
The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.”
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!
I guess God was joking and did not really mean it...
...when He said: (response in blue)
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Shall not be in a state of being lost (apollumi), but shall have life during the ages which collectively come to an end. Heb. 9:26.To have eonian life means to have life in the eons to come. If one forfeits life in the eons to come, this will not preclude him from being reconciled with God once those eons are completed … for that is the ultimate purpose of the eons. Throughout the eons man is a work in progress.
And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.
They will lose it for the eons but will find it again when the eons collectively end Heb. 9:26
Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Instead of being forgiven, they will suffer the consequences. But the consequences are age-during, not eternal.
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
God will restore all destroyed souls when death is abolished. 1 Cor. 15:20-28. “Hell” is from the Greek Gehenna in this instance, and refers to the Valley of Hinnon outside Jerusalem.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.
Believers have life pertaining to the ages which collectively come to an end. Christ rejecters will receive kolasis aionios (age-during corrective chastisement) Matt 25:46.
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment
Both in terms of duration and intensity God will administer just the right amount of kolasis aionios to everyone who needs it. Matt. 25:46.
None of those references speak of a permanent condition … but are a part of God’s work in progress. We can be sure this is true because God “will have all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4) It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved. And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants” if you like. Because God says "My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure (the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants) Yea I have spoken it. I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it. I will also do it." Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But He stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases. (the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. (the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires. His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants What does He want? THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND Why will it happen? Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Just like in the case of Lydia (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14) and Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:1-8), our cooperation to be saved is the result, not the cause, of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart.
God wills that all mankind be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will (Ephesians 1:11)[/S
As in Adam all are dying; thus also in Christ will all be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22)
Last edited by rodgertutt; 04-12-2013 at 10:10 AM..
Yes that is how it works. If one's desire doesn't match up with the plain Word of Truth, then one rejects the clear and plain Word of God. Next step: Umm...change the meanings of words. Example. The Bible says eternal. Bad word. Make that only a long time. Hell, umm...let's scratch one. Pretend it was a translators boo boo, while he had one too many glasses of wine. Final step...pretend that all scirpture that contradicts the UR POV doesn't exist or is a scheme to scare people. I am good with scareing people to seek the truth.
Sorry, but if the scripture says the ski is Blue I say OK. I don't try to rationalize it away, because I would prefer that the ski be a different color.
You guys are dangerous and lead people to believe they will be fine if they reject Christ in this life.
I have decided that Universalists have become my hobbie. But only if I have the time.
Oh, you mean like all that "We don't need to listen to/adhere to God's various commandments in the OT because we want to believe Jesus vaguely said so, and also because maybe God only meant it temporarily, for that exact time period and place" stuff? Yeah, that cherry-picking of "God's word" really IS annoying and hypocritical. I can't argue with you there.
Oh, you mean like all that "We don't need to listen to/adhere to God's various commandments in the OT because we want to believe Jesus vaguely said so, and also because maybe God only meant it temporarily, for that exact time period and place" stuff? Yeah, that cherry-picking of "God's word" really IS annoying and hypocritical. I can't argue with you there.
Concerning the meaning of aionios, I found Dean Hough's observation informative.
“The definition given in THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, “In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . .” (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ. The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ’s cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).” Dean Hough
Concerning the meaning of aionios, I found Dean Hough's observation informative.
“The definition given in THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, “In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . .” (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ. The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ’s cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).” Dean Hough
I battled an ear ache some time ago. Though it was not life threatening the continual waves of pain seemed excruciating and every minute that went by before the remedy I had used began to work seemed like hours. Sometimes when I would be at work at not enjoying it, it seemed to drag on and on. Yet when I'm enjoying what I'm doing, the time passes very quickly. God is merciful. The Father does not inflict unending misery on anyone. I am convinced that the 'suffering' we endure during eoniian chastening is perfectly engineered to requite us for any injustices we have done that we did not repent of and to bring about that repentance and a total change of heart.
Jubilee is overlooked as insignificant. But it is very significant. God who owns the earth gave a portion of it to Israel, not because they were more righteous than anyone else, nor more obedient, or because they were going to be a stellar example for the world, but because it was His choice and because through their history and failures, the world would see how He operates. He allotted sections of the earth, which He owned, to tribes and told them they could not sell it permanently because it was not theirs to sell. For various reasons they were allowed to lease out the land for a certain amount of years based on the years left until Jubilee. They were also permitted to lease themselves out in repayment of a debt, also only until the year of Jubilee. We are God's be creation and by redemption. WE DO NOT OWN OURSELVES. By the blood of Jesus Christ shed on Calvary everyone belongs to God whether we know it or not. We CANNOT sell ourselves in perpetuity (forever). No matter what amount we or the world might think we owe to whoever, God has declared that there will come a day when everyone is finally freed!! This is a powerful message and so little understood and rarely mentioned in the church. Many understand that they have been redeemed and realize they no longer are slaves to sin, yet they fail to understand that they are not free men. They have merely changed masters. Jesus is now our master and is much kinder for He is our kinsman redeemer. Yet many are rebellious servants and do not do His will so that when Jesus returns they will not hear well done good and faithful servant, but will be cast out among those who never realized they had been redeemed. There will be gnashing of teeth and great sorrow and regret but it will not be physical torture. But Jubilee will come in God's plan of the ages and EVERYONE will be freed to the place where God originally created them to be.
What a day of rejoicing that will be and God's glory reflected in Jesus face and the face of all His creation will be beyond description.
I love the Jubilee law. It is GOOD NEWS FOR ALL PEOPLE.
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God bless.
What i believe god meant
Yeah, that cherry-picking of "God's word" really IS annoying and hypocritical. I can't argue with you there.
