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Colossians 1:16 For in him [Jesus] all things werecreated: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
"US". Jesus, as God only-begotten heavenly Son, is part of the 'us' of Genesis 1 v 26.
So, all creation [ visible and invisible ] comes 'through' the already created Jesus by God. - Ephesians 3 v 9
God is Not firstborn, but according to Colossians 1 v 15 Jesus is a first creation [ first born in the heavens ]
God had No beginning according to Psalm 90 v 2.
Only God was before the beginning.
So, Jesus was not 'before' the beginning as God was before the beginning.
Jesus was the beginning [ God's only begotten heavenly pre-human Son ] of the creation by God according to John at Rev. 3 v 14.
Yes, Jesus Christ is God. When he was in human form, physically, however,
there was some knowledge that is only the Father's which he was temporarily
hidden from, because in order for Man to be rectified with God, He had to suffer.
Yes, Jesus Christ is God. When he was in human form, physically, however,
there was some knowledge that is only the Father's which he was temporarily
hidden from, because in order for Man to be rectified with God, He had to suffer.
Who Created God ?
Who is the beginning of the creation by God according to Revelation 3 v 14, 1 v 5 ?
Did God have a beginning according to Psalm 90 v 2 ?
Was Jesus before the beginning as God was before the beginning ?
Is it still hidden or who does Jesus think he is at Rev. 2 v 18 ?
Does the resurrected heavenly Jesus still think he has a God over him at Rev. 3 v 12 ?
How many thrones are needed for one person at Rev. 3 v 21 ?
As of the incarnation, Jesus was both 100% God and 100% man.
Let's read what the scriptures tell us what type of beings God and the angels are;
John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Heb.1
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Now let's read where Jesus Himself tells us that He is NOT a spirit being, as God and the angels are, when He was upon the earth born of Mary. Let's read what He tells us He is NOT even AFTER dying on the cross;
Luke 24
[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
And let's confirm this by reading what Jesus did NOT become when born of Mary;
Heb.2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Phil.2
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
If Jesus was 100% God when born of Mary how could He die? What or who could be able to kill Him?
Now let's read what CANNOT dwell in heaven;
1 Cor.15
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Now how can Jesus dwell in heaven if He is 100% flesh and blood? Did Paul lie?
You cannot, according to scriptures, have it both ways.
When the scriptures tell us that, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." it is impossible for it to mean His physical state, for BEFORE He was born of Mary He was NOT a flesh and blood being, so at some point He changed. So He has NOT been the same from the beginning.
Just as we all physically get older and our bodies change, what we believe in does not. The doctrine and workings of Jesus did not change, but the state of His being did; from spirit, to man and back to being a spirit being.
Then we have the following statement from Jesus Himself;
John 17
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Why would Jesus make the above statement if something had not changed? Jesus is requesting that His former glory is given again to Him. That would mean that something changed....thus He is NOT His former self as He was BEFORE He was made, "...a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death.".
.
Last edited by Eccl 12vs13; 07-21-2013 at 03:30 PM..
God is Not firstborn, but according to Colossians 1 v 15 Jesus is a first creation [ first born in the heavens ]
Jesus Christ being referred to as "first born" is in reference to the fact that no other has been born of a woman and now is a spirit being.
Jesus is the only one that has truly been "born again" into the family of God.
Heb.7
[1] For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
[2] To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
[3] Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
[4] Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
The person spoken of above is none other than Jesus Christ! For mankind has had no dealings with the God that is known as God the Father. Jesus was God the Father's His High Priest sent down to deal with man.
Let's read what the scriptures tell us what type of beings God and the angels are;
John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Heb.1
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Now let's read where Jesus Himself tells us that He is NOT a spirit being, as God and the angels are, when He was upon the earth born of Mary. Let's read what He tells us He is NOT even AFTER dying on the cross;
Luke 24
[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
And let's confirm this by reading what Jesus did NOT become when born of Mary;
Heb.2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Phil.2
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
If Jesus was 100% God when born of Mary how could He die? What or who could be able to kill Him?
Now let's read what CANNOT dwell in heaven;
1 Cor.15
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Now how can Jesus dwell in heaven if He is 100% flesh and blood? Did Paul lie?
You cannot, according to scriptures, have it both ways.
When the scriptures tell us that, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." it is impossible for it to mean His physical state, for BEFORE He was born of Mary He was NOT a flesh and blood being, so at some point He changed. So He has NOT been the same from the beginning.
Just as we all physically get older and our bodies change, what we believe in does not. The doctrine and workings of Jesus did not change, but the state of His being did; from spirit, to man and back to being a spirit being.
Then we have the following statement from Jesus Himself;
John 17
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Why would Jesus make the above statement if something had not changed? Jesus is requesting that His former glory is given again to Him. That would mean that something changed....thus He is NOT His former self as He was BEFORE He was made, "...a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death.".
.
Mortal flesh and blood cannot inhabit heaven. But Jesus Christ has been resurrected and in resurrected body is seated at the right hand of the Father.
You are not raising any questions which are not answered by the kenosis and hypostatic union of Jesus Christ. Before you continue, you might want to do some research on those doctrines. I provided you with a quick study. I will post it again >>> DOCTRINE OF THE HYPOSTATIC UNION AND KENOSIS
Mortal flesh and blood cannot inhabit heaven. But Jesus Christ has been resurrected and in resurrected body is seated at the right hand of the Father.
I've got to agree with you about that. The scriptures use the phrase "flesh and blood" to refer to mortal man. Every time that these words are used, that's what they are referring to. A resurrected being (whether it's Jesus Christ or anybody else) no longer has a mortal body, but an immortal body. And an immortal body (even if it has a physical form and substance like Jesus' did) can most definitely inhabit Heaven.
When Stephen looked into Heaven, He saw "the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of God" -- exactly as you pointed out. He saw the Father and the Son, both of whom are "100% God."
Mortal flesh and blood cannot inhabit heaven. But Jesus Christ has been resurrected and in resurrected body is seated at the right hand of the Father.
But the body that Jesus was raised in is NOT a flesh and blood body.....He now has a spirit body.
The same spirit body that will be given to those found worthy;
1 Cor.15
[40] There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
[41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[47] The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
[48] As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Again I ask.....how can mortal man kill a being that is spirit? How can a spirit being die? If Jesus was 100% God who hold the award for killing a God? Will man be able to kill the angels, all spirit beings, when they return to render judgement upon the earth with Christ?
Christ was NOT given the same nature as angels when born of Mary;
Heb.2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Phil.2
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Why? Because spirit beings do not die. Blood had to be shed for the forgiveness of sins. Had Jesus been 100% spirit, He would not ahve been able to accomplish what He came to do.
But the body that Jesus was raised in is NOT a flesh and blood body.....He now has a spirit body.
So what exactly is a "spirit body"? Jesus was pretty specific in calling His Apostles attention to the fact that after His resurrection, He had a body of "flesh and bones." He remained with them for 40 days and then they saw Him ascend to Heaven. He still had that body then. When do you think He got rid of it?
Angela
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