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Do you believe in the Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, or NO Rapture at all?
I lean towards no Rapture but, if there is one, it will be Post-Trib.
The rapture of the church is not a theory. The word 'Rapture' is taken from the Latin word 'Rapturo' which is a translation of the Greek word 'harpazó' which is translated into English as 'caught up' in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
Here then is the passage which tells of the event commonly referred to as the rapture of the church which again refers to the catching up of the church.
1 Thess. 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up (harpazó - rapturo - raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18] Therefore comfort one another with these words.
The easiest way of showing that the rapture of the church is pre-tribulational is by pointing out that immediately after addressing the rapture of the church in 1 Thess. 4:13-18, Paul then addresses the issue of the 'day of the Lord' in 1 Thess. chapter 5. The day of the Lord refers to a period of direct judgment on the earth by God. This will begin with the Tribulation. But Paul says in 1 Thess. 5:9-11 that God has not destined us (the church) for wrath, but for obtaining salvation (temporal deliverance is referred to here rather than eternal salvation) through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep (physically alive or physically dead), we will live together with Him. And to therefore encourage one another.
The context of this passage makes it clear that the wrath to which Paul refers is the Tribulation. Of course the church has historically gone through periods of persecution. But the church is not destined to go through Daniel's seventieth week (Daniel 9:27) which is commonly referred to as the Tribulation. The Tribulation is a period of God's judgment on Israel and the unbelieving Gentile nations of the world. The church by definition is neither Israel or the unbelieving Gentile nations.
After Paul first wrote the Thessalonians about the rapture of the Church which will be followed by the day of the Lord, deceivers attempted to convince the Thessalonians that they had missed the rapture and were in the day of the Lord. And so Paul had to write to them again. In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 Paul reassured the Thessalonians that the day of the Lord had not come and would not come until the man of lawlessness (the prince who is to come in Daniel 9:26-27) is revealed. And the man of lawlessness cannot be revealed until He who restrains Him is taken out of the way.
2 Thess. 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he(ho; Nominative Masculine Singular) who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way (ginomai; Aorist Subjunctive Middle-3rd Person Singular).
There is a 'He' who has to be taken out of the way before the man of lawlessness can be revealed. The only 'He' who can be referred to is God the Holy Spirit who indwells the Church age believer. When the church is raptured or caught up, the Holy Spirit who restrains the man of lawlessness from appearing will be taken out of the way in the sense that His restraining ministry will be withdrawn.
The Tribulation will begin with a signing of a peace treaty with Israel (a covenant with the many) by the man of lawlessness - the prince who is to come (Daniel 9:26-27). He cannot make that covenant with the many until he first appears. He cannot appear until the restraining ministry of the Holy Spirit is removed with the rapture of the church.
The church is seen in heaven in Revelation 19:7-8 where she is referred to as the bride while the Tribulation is taking place on the earth. This of course requires that the church be taken off the earth before the Tribulation begins.
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-03-2013 at 09:15 AM..
Jesus said of those Virgins waiting for The Bridegroom.
Only The Wise Virgins Would Be Ready
To Go Into The Wedding With The Bridegroom. - Matt.25
The 'false doctrine' of The Bride Of Christ Being The Church?
Can Not Be Quoted As Scripture.
The School Of The Pastors Made Up This Doctrine
So They Could Pat Everyone On The Head By Their Admittance Of This 'False Doctrine'.
To assure every paid pew member as being Christ's bride.
Instead of those who will be "The Lamb's Wife"
for "The Marriage Of the Lamb"
at "The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb".
There is no scripture quote of The Church being The Bride Of Christ.
Anyway, The Great Multitude that will Stand before The Throne of God and The Lamb
in White Robes with Palms in hand is The Marriage Of The Lamb. - Rev.7:9-17
Rev.19:1-9 Is The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb In Heavenly New Jerusalem.
Before Jesus comes back to Rule & Reign on earth for the 1,000 years.
After the 1,000 yrs when there is a New heaven and new earth
God will bring The Lamb's Wife, Who're IN New Jerusalem to earth. - Rev.21
RW - I agree with you that the Pre-Trib Rapture is a false doctrine.
The "Great Multitude" are those people who have been martyred for their belief in Jesus Christ.
Do you believe in the Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, or NO Rapture at all?
I lean towards no Rapture but, if there is one, it will be Post-Trib.
And all of those are non-scriptural ... for scriptures teaches that when we are "caught up in the air" (rapture) it happens on the singular "Last Day".
False teachers like the typical Millennialist seperate the two which makes Jesus having a double return.
They do this mainly (but not always) because of their crass literalism methods of OT and NT, in order to fit their evil desires to prevent the Christian Church of it's surety to judge all people.
RW - I agree with you that the Pre-Trib Rapture is a false doctrine.
The "Great Multitude" are those people who have been martyred for their belief in Jesus Christ.
The great multitude in Revelation 7:9 has no bearing on when the rapture takes place. The great multitude in Revelation 7:9 is the same group of people referred to in Revelation 6:9. They have come out of the Great Tribulation as stated in Rev. 7:14. But the rapture of the church will have occurred before the Tribulation begins. I showed this in post #2 from what the apostle Paul wrote to the Thessalonians, and by showing the resurrected church (the bride) in heaven while the Tribulation is taking place on the earth.
RW - I agree with you that the Pre-Trib Rapture is a false doctrine.
The "Great Multitude" are those people who have been martyred for their belief in Jesus Christ.
You flat out ignored Mike's fairly well-thought out post, and simply stated the notion is false doctrine.
There is no rapture. We are not about to be beamed up by Scotty.
Tribulations are always happening,
they are happening now,
they have happened in the past,
and they will happen in the future until the Messianic Age and Christs Return.
We reap what we sow, is the law of Karma. We bring on ourselves tribulations which are our own fault, granted the universe is controlled by God but God is just so our actions have consequences.
The greatest trial of all is that we are in an age where we might drive ourselves to extinction, we must tend to the Earth as God planned us to do. If we continue to harm the Earth it will cease to yeild of it's self to us and we will all perish.
Their is also hate in the hearts of mankind, and we must try to learn and let go of this hate and become more tolerable of each other, more open minded.
If we can't learn to put our differences aside and agree to disagree, if we can't learn to love each other then we will destroy ourselves with war brought on by our own hands, we will fall victim to weapons god allowed us to fashion.
The same things we use as weapons could prove beneficial in some ways for mankind if researched and applied in the appropriate manner, "For they shall turn their swords into plow shares, and their spears into pruning hooks."
But if we create W.M.D.'s and use them then we will reap what we have sown.
Shall mankind Awaken to what is righteous or go up in one final puff of smoke?
The choice is ours.
During the plagues of the vial of the wrath of God from Revelations 15-16...``.is where God judgment of the authority of the mark of the beast , the number of the beast, and the worship of the image of the beast is destroyed from the earth , ......As God brings sores on the men which held these curses , every living soul died in the sea, the river and waters became blood, the sun was given power to scorch men with fire, men who held the seat of the beast were given pain and their sores , and Armageddon war came , the air was vial with wrath , and thunders and lightnings and earthquakes was so great unheard of, great hail stones around 10 pounds fell on the earth...``......... With all this destruction which falls on the earth to destroy the kingdom of darkness from God `Do you still believe God has NO plan for His cherished Children of God to survive such destruction ?, as if God does not help His children the martyrs and this destruction , will end all life on the earth .....`Jesus got a plan` Trust In God , as the rapture and other protection will indeed come .....
You flat out ignored Mike's fairly well-thought out post, and simply stated the notion is false doctrine.
Why?
The Pre-Trib Rapture is a false doctrine because it isn't going to happen. Believe it if you want to but then don't complain when the antichrist arrives and you are still here.
When referring to the end times, Jesus said that "many will be deceived" - and MANY millions of people already are.
Pre-Tribbers believe that they are a "special" breed of person. NO ONE in the history of mankind has EVER been rescued from torture and death - but these people think that they will be. God is going to spare them when He hasn't spared any other group of people. It's simple arrogance on their (your) part.
It is one of Satan's greatest deceptions.
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