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A false gospel is negative, regardless if one professes it to be true.
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and
sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!"
I'm not persuaded that anything has happened to 'true Christianity?' However, there is a great tendency to confuse 'the church' (Religion), with 'the Church' (Christianity; Body of Christ on Earth).
The church (Religion) has largely lost it's moral influence and authority, because it has submitted to the world's moral standards and influence. The Church (Body of Christ on Earth) is still a powerful, effective force that will reign-on with Christ, throughout eternity.
What we are experiencing in the church (religion) today (as in every generation) is the prophesied "great(er) falling away, starting with the first Century church and being completed in the End Times. (Like 'birth pains', the 'falling away' has gotten more pronounced every generation; today it is happening at a frantic pace). This is perhaps a precursor to the 'final separation of the wheat and the tares' (The real Church, from the world's church).
Many walk a thin line between legitimacy and lawlessness; under the guise of grace, having imputed his righteousness to themselves?
James 1:25
But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues…, and is not a forgetful hearer?
But a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scriptures: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well.
Jude 1:4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed …ungodly men, who turn(ed) the grace of our Lord into licentiousness.
Which is define as being "unrestrained" by law.
Many were, and are distorting the meaning of grace by implying that God's law (Christ's command) of love is not binding.
However, we are to proclaim the love of the Father, which was the message that Christ Jesus had once delivered for ALL.
I believe in Christ's sacrifice . . . I just don't believe it means what YOU think it means! I know why it happened and I know what His death and rebirth achieved for us all.
You think you are part of some special club because you accept a specific set of ignorant OT beliefs ABOUT God and some corrupted NT Gospel about Christ from merging the ignorance of the OT with Christ's message of love. That is foolishness and will not serve you well. Christ came to lift the veil of ignorance over the OT and reveal the true nature of God . . . NOT pay some obscene payment for our sins. He endured our savagery (sins) on His body to teach us that mercy is what God wants from us . . . NOT blood sacrifices. He smote no one and loved His torturers and murderers!!! "No greater love . . . "
What is taught in the OT is savage and barbaric ignorance and superstition about God. Fortunately it contains information about Christ, how to identify Him. What His status is. What He will accomplish. And how to validate Him through prophesy . . . long after His death. It is also USEFUL (profitable) for instruction in righteousness, etc. It is NOT the word of God and it is NOT inerrant or infallible . . . or there would have been no need for Jesus the REAL Living Word of God to teach us about the true nature of God and what real righteousness is all about.
The Old Testament is indeed the Word of God as is the New Testament. As for what the Old Testament says about the nature of God;
Exodus 34:6 Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;
Numbers 14:18The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.'
Nehemiah 9:17 "They refused to listen, And did not remember Your wondrous deeds which You had performed among them; So they became stubborn and appointed a leader to return to their slavery in Egypt. But You are a God of forgiveness, Gracious and compassionate, Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness; And You did not forsake them.
Psalm 86:5 For You, Lord, are good, and ready to forgive, And abundant in lovingkindness to all who call upon You.
Psalm 86:15 But You, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, Slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness and truth.
Joel 2:13 And rend your heart and not your garments." Now return to the LORD your God, For He is gracious and compassionate, Slow to anger, abounding in lovingkindness And relenting of evil.
Excerpt:
Question: "Why is God so different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament?"
Answer: At the very heart of this question lies a fundamental misunderstanding of what both the Old and New Testaments reveal about the nature of God.
And Jesus did indeed pay the penalty for our sins. That is very clearly taught in the Bible and is the only reason why God can provide eternal salvation to anyone who receives Christ as Savior.
1 Peter 2:24and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Hebrews 9:28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Gal. 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE " 14] in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 1:7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
1 Peter 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19] but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
Numbers 14:18The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.'
except when it comes to the Canaanites and the Amalekites:
Quote:
"And Moses said to them, “Have you spared all the women? 16 “Behold, these caused the sons of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, so the plague was among the congregation of the Lord. 17 “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. 18 “But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves." (Numbers 31:15-18).
Quote:
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " 4 So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim--two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand men from Judah.
Like I said, a schizophrenic god named yahweh who loves people one moment and then murders them the next, even His own people. Too many incidents to name in that last one.
I believe in Christ's sacrifice . . . I just don't believe it means what YOU think it means! I know why it happened and I know what His death and rebirth achieved for us all. You think you are part of some special club because you accept a specific set of ignorant OT beliefs ABOUT God and some corrupted NT Gospel about Christ from merging the ignorance of the OT with Christ's message of love.
More attempts to tell me what I believe
Quote:
That is foolishness and will not serve you well.
My relationship with Christ is serving me very well, but thanks for trying to tell me it's just foolishness.
Do you know what this bloodthirsty OT monster of yours said about treating your neighbor? He said "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."
Judging other people's faith as foolishness, or calling the Gospel a lie is missing the mark big time.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-15-2014 at 05:58 AM..
And Jesus did indeed pay the penalty for our sins. That is very clearly taught in the Bible and is the only reason why God can provide eternal salvation to anyone who receives Christ as Savior.
1 Peter 2:24and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Hebrews 9:28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Gal. 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE " 14] in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 1:7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
1 Peter 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19] but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
My relationship with Christ is serving we very well, but thanks for trying to tell me it's just foolishness.
Do you know what this bloodthirsty OT monster of yours said about treating your neighbor? He said "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."
Judging other people's faith as foolishness, or calling the Gospel a lie is missing the mark big time.
Maybe you could explain to what this relationship is that is working out well.
The Old Testament is indeed the Word of God as is the New Testament. As for what the Old Testament says about the nature of God;
Exodus 34:6 Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;
Numbers 14:18The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.'
Nehemiah 9:17 "They refused to listen, And did not remember Your wondrous deeds which You had performed among them; So they became stubborn and appointed a leader to return to their slavery in Egypt. But You are a God of forgiveness, Gracious and compassionate, Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness; And You did not forsake them.
Psalm 86:5 For You, Lord, are good, and ready to forgive, And abundant in lovingkindness to all who call upon You.
Psalm 86:15 But You, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, Slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness and truth.
Joel 2:13 And rend your heart and not your garments." Now return to the LORD your God, For He is gracious and compassionate, Slow to anger, abounding in lovingkindness And relenting of evil.
Excerpt:
Question: "Why is God so different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament?"
Answer: At the very heart of this question lies a fundamental misunderstanding of what both the Old and New Testaments reveal about the nature of God.
And Jesus did indeed pay the penalty for our sins. That is very clearly taught in the Bible and is the only reason why God can provide eternal salvation to anyone who receives Christ as Savior.
1 Peter 2:24and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Hebrews 9:28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Gal. 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE " 14] in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 1:7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
1 Peter 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19] but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 Numbers 14:18The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.'
except when it comes to the Canaanites and the Amalekites:
Quote:
"And Moses said to them, “Have you spared all the women? 16 “Behold, these caused the sons of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, so the plague was among the congregation of the Lord. 17 “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. 18 “But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves." (Numbers 31:15-18).
Quote:
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " 4 So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim--two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand men from Judah.
Like I said, a schizophrenic god named yahweh who loves people one moment and then murders them the next, even His own people. Too many incidents to name in that last one.
God had been patient with the nations of the land which God was to give to the Israelites. They did not sink into their depraved ways over night. God punished them because of the detestable things they were doing, such as sacrificing their children to their gods (Deuteronomy 18:9-14). And when later the Jews did the same thing God severely punished them as well.
God had given the Amorites over four hundred years to turn from their evil ways. All the time that the Jews had been in slavery in Egypt, the nations had been practicing these evil things. In Genesis 15:16 God speaks of the iniquity of the Amorites not yet being complete.
Genesis 15:16 ''Then in the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete.''
Yes, The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.' Numbers 14:18
And Jesus IS Yah-weh, as is the Father.
Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD (Yah-weh) will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4] In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; . . .''
I believe in Christ's sacrifice . . . I just don't believe it means what YOU think it means! I know why it happened and I know what His death and rebirth achieved for us all. You think you are part of some special club because you accept a specific set of ignorant OT beliefs ABOUT God and some corrupted NT Gospel about Christ from merging the ignorance of the OT with Christ's message of love. That is foolishness and will not serve you well. Christ came to lift the veil of ignorance over the OT and reveal the true nature of God . . . NOT pay some obscene payment for our sins. He endured our savagery (sins) on His body to teach us that mercy is what God wants from us . . . NOT blood sacrifices. He smote no one and loved His torturers and murderers!!! "No greater love . . . "
What is taught in the OT is savage and barbaric ignorance and superstition about God. Fortunately it contains information about Christ. How to identify Him. What His status is. What He will accomplish. And how to validate Him through prophesy . . . long after His death. It is also USEFUL (profitable) for instruction in righteousness, etc. It is NOT the word of God and it is NOT inerrant or infallible . . . or there would have been no need for Jesus the REAL Living Word of God to teach us about the true nature of God and what real righteousness is all about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
More attempts to tell me what I believe
Why do you do this? I am not telling you what you believe. I am parroting back what you have said you believe. Do you not remember telling us what you believe?? I would be sympathetic. . . having my own Senior moments.
Quote:
My relationship with Christ is serving me very well, but thanks for trying to tell me it's just foolishness.
Your relationship with Christ is not foolishness, Finn. It is central . . . but all the attendant "precepts and doctrines of men" you adhere to as if they mattered to Christ or God ARE foolishness.
Quote:
Do you know what this bloodthirsty OT monster of yours said about treating your neighbor? He said "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."
You know I have repeatedly said there is truth and inspiration in the Bible including the OT. The difference is testing the Spirit of what is there against the Spirit of Christ's love for us ALL . . . not just "among special people." That is why Christ's mission was so critical in correcting the ancient ignorance, superstition and barbarity that veils the OT.
Quote:
Judging other people's faith as foolishness, or calling the Gospel a lie is missing the mark big time.
I judge no one's FAITH in Christ, Finn . . . but their specific beliefs definitely are to be tested against the Spirit of Christ. Testing by the "Spirit that giveth life" is our charge . . . NOT blindly following the "letter that killeth."
YOU my friend are the one accusing the brethren of calling the Gospel a lie . . . NOT me. You have done so multiple times in this thread alone. There is truth AND lies in the BIBLE . . . we are warned about "the lying scribes." You seem to ignore that warning under the mistaken "precepts and doctrines of men" that believes the Bible is inerrant and infallible. It is NOT. THAT is what has happened to Christianity . . . the false doctrine of inerrancy and infallibility of the words "written in ink" . . . instead of the Living Word of God who abides with us as the Comforter to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" under the New covenant.
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