Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-17-2014, 02:39 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,295 posts, read 26,494,624 times
Reputation: 16396

Advertisements

I like listening to Dr. Dan Wallace speak. In this video he addresses the issue stated in the title of this thread.

He states that no essential Christian belief is jeopardized by any viable variant in the New Testament manuscripts. By the way, Bart Ehrman agrees with this. At 41:47 into the video Dr. Wallace quotes what Dr. Ehrman stated in the Appendix of the paperback version of his book 'Misquoting Jesus.' Ehrman states, ''Essential Christian beliefs are not affected by textual variants in the manuscript tradition of the New Testament.''

Well, here's the video.


How Badly Did Scribes Change the New Testament Bible? (Dr. Daniel B. Wallace) - YouTube
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-17-2014, 07:31 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,295 posts, read 26,494,624 times
Reputation: 16396
The material in this presentation of Dr. Wallace is largely the same as in his speech in the video in the OP since the subject is, ''Is what we have now what they wrote then'', but he provides some information which is not in the first. Plus there is a good question/answer session during the last 26 minutes of the session.

Spark Learning Seminar | Dr. Daniel B. Wallace


Spark Learning Seminar | Dr. Daniel B. Wallace - YouTube
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2014, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,384,178 times
Reputation: 2296
"Turn an age into an eternity, create an eternal hell of pain and suffering; and reduce salvation to only a few, must have been the truth from the beginning?"



Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2014, 02:45 PM
 
18,250 posts, read 16,941,651 times
Reputation: 7554
Mike is quite right: 99% of the variants do not change the meaning of the text. The fly in the ointment is that pesky 1%.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2014, 02:46 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,209,252 times
Reputation: 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Mike is quite right: 99% of the variants do not change the meaning of the text. The fly in the ointment is that pesky 1%.
Can you give us an example of the pesky 1%?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2014, 02:55 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,295 posts, read 26,494,624 times
Reputation: 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Mike is quite right: 99% of the variants do not change the meaning of the text. The fly in the ointment is that pesky 1%.
You are misquoting what I wrote in the OP. And you are misquoting Dr. Wallace. I did not say that 99% of the variants do not change the meaning of the text but that there is a pesky 1% of the variants that do. Those are your words. Not mine. Even Bart Ehrman agrees that ''Essential Christian beliefs are not affected by textual variants in the manuscript tradition of the New Testament.''
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2014, 02:57 PM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,255,352 times
Reputation: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Can you give us an example of the pesky 1%?
John 7:53 - 8:11 comes to mind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2014, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Canada
11,123 posts, read 6,395,816 times
Reputation: 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You are misquoting what I wrote in the OP. And you are misquoting Dr. Wallace. I did not say that 99% of the variants do not change the meaning of the text. Even Bart Ehrman agrees that ''Essential Christian beliefs are not affected by textual variants in the manuscript tradition of the New Testament.''
so I guess it was ok then for the RCC to have added interpolations of things not in the original manuscripts. eek gad.

I guess it was alright for them to do this as it lined up with what they believed.

oh wait a minute the lying pen of the scribes did the same thing to the laws of Moses. I guess that was ok to.

good grief.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2014, 03:27 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,295 posts, read 26,494,624 times
Reputation: 16396
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx View Post
John 7:53 - 8:11 comes to mind.
While the story about the adulterous woman may not have originally been in John's gospel, it has all the ring of historical veracity and was probably a part of the oral tradition.

The Bible knowledge Commentary states that most commentators believe the event to be historical, and that the story is an authentic tradition about Jesus.

F. F. Bruce agrees with this. Quoting Bruce M. Metzger (the bolded part), he writes,
''Whatever textual problems are raised by this passage, 'the account has all the earmarks of historical veracity'. We may safely recognize the incident as taking place in the temple precincts during Holy Week, a companion piece to those which are related in Mark 12:13-34, and especially to the incident of the tribute money.'' [The Gospel of John, F. F. Bruce, p. 417]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2014, 03:38 PM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,255,352 times
Reputation: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
While the story about the adulterous woman may not have originally been in John's gospel, it has all the ring of historical veracity and was probably a part of the oral tradition.

The Bible knowledge Commentary states that most commentators believe the event to be historical, and that the story is an authentic tradition about Jesus.

F. F. Bruce agrees with this. Quoting Bruce M. Metzger (the bolded part), he writes,
''Whatever textual problems are raised by this passage, 'the account has all the earmarks of historical veracity'. We may safely recognize the incident as taking place in the temple precincts during Holy Week, a companion piece to those which are related in Mark 12:13-34, and especially to the incident of the tribute money.'' [The Gospel of John, F. F. Bruce, p. 417]
Oh I don't deny this, but even if this passage were removed, it wouldn't change the core tenants of Christianity or any doctrines. That's all I was saying.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:05 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top