Does Predestination Negate Free Will (Gospel, presbyterian, doctrine, believe)
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Disclaimer: I'm new to the religion section of this forum...sorry if this is a duplicate thread.
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I was raised Presbyterian and this is something that i've always wondered.
1) We presume that God is all knowing.
2) We presume that God is all powerful.
3) We presume that God is infallable.
Therefore, God knows all that has happened, is happening, and will happen because he has willed it and is without error.
If we follow the path of this...our destiny is laid out. What we do in the future is predestined by a perfect, all knowing, all power, infallable being.
Does a possibility exist for us to deviate from this? How is this compatable with Free Will? Do humans have free will at all?
God knowing what free will decisions we will make before we make them does not negate our own free will. He does not choose our decisions for us. We are still free to choose.
Yes, God is all knowing, but that does Not mean he created angels and humans without free will.
God chose to make angels and humans as free moral agents with the ability to choose or think for oneself.
That means God does not interfere with our choices. Just as God did not interfere with Adam's choice.
So, although God has the power, God refrains or chooses not to use his power to control us as robots or automatons.
God knowing what free will decisions we will make before we make them does not negate our own free will. He does not choose our decisions for us. We are still free to choose.
I see what you're saying but do you think it is theoretically possible for you to divert from the path God has chosen for you? God knows what you'll do tomorrow...God knows when/if you'll respond to this post...he knows it with infallability because he is ALL knowing. If he has predestined this to be so...could you contradict it?
I think the answer to that is no...it logically must be NO if God is how we understand him from scripture.
We don't have free will. Our actions and choices correspond to the actions that are compatable with our predestined path but to say that those choices are truly ours is incorrect.
I think we're confusing "free will" with what I call the Backyard Theory.
God's dominion is of course everything in your life, and there are many things in your life for you to "play with" - to learn from, to discover, etc - like toys in a backyard. Things that can surely hurt you & help you...
...but there is a fence out there that you cannot go beyond.
Also, what is free about a will that's changed by something as small as a traffic jam? An illness? A kind or harsh word?
"The One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will." (Eph. 1:11). that is what God thinks...hah " ... for it is GOD Who is operating in you TO WILL as well as to work for the sake of His delight" (Phil. 2:13). i do my own will, and my own delight
"Verily, verily, I am saying to you, The Son can not be doing anything of Himself ... " (John 5:19). but i sure can do anything of myself " ... apart from Me you can do nothing." (Jn. 15:5). you wannt bet i can God?
"It is not in man to direct his own steps" (Jer. 10:23). well... let me think.... i am more than a man!
Freewill, keep drinking the kool aid.
every choice you make is caused by an effect. who causes that effect? you cannot make a free choice. by the way.... what flavor is that kool aid. i always liked flavor purple.
Predestination is a false doctrine that is an attempt to use a "Get out of responsibility free" card. Without responsibility . . . we can never be held accountable for ANYTHING. It is a corrupt and insidious doctrine that negates Christ's Gospel and eliminates ANY responsibility to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. It takes "easy believism" to the extreme. We are BOUND by God's laws (physical and spiritual) as little elmer says with his backyard fence analogy. But within those bounds . . . WE have been given Dominion by God's Sovereign Will. Christ abides with us as the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to help us cope with the things we must learn so we can "overcome and endure" whatever we face.
Predestination is a false doctrine that is an attempt to use a "Get out of responsibility free" card. Without responsibility . . . we can never be held accountable for ANYTHING. It is a corrupt and insidious doctrine that negates Christ's Gospel and eliminates ANY responsibility to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. It takes "easy believism" to the extreme. We are BOUND by God's laws (physical and spiritual) as little elmer says with his backyard fence analogy. But within those bounds . . . WE have been given Dominion by God's Sovereign Will. Christ abides with us as the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to help us cope with the things we must learn so we can "overcome and endure" whatever we face.
Predestination isn't a "get out of jail free card." Our actions are compatable with God's preordained path for us, but to say that we choose our actions free of any intervention isn't compatable with our conception of God. To say that we are simply fenced in "yard" with toys to play with is well and good but it doesn't negate that God KNOWS which toys we will play with and how we will play with them. Further...God willed our future actions into being. God knew that I would play with the paddle-ball over the marbles from the moment I was conceived which is logically incompatable with me choosing to do so.
I believe in God because I have faith that I am predestined to be saved. I believe as though I am acting according to my predestined path. I don't feel that I can behave differently therefore my actions, which may seem like my own, are merely compatable with God's will for me. The cards will fall where they fall. I don't think we possess the ability to comprehend our human condition or consciouness anymore than infant can understand linear algebra. The knowledge exists...just not within our realm of understanding.
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Does Predestination Negate Free Will
