Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
23 And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.’ 28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out. 29 And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last.”
Luke 16
19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And [r]besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
already explained the Luke 13 scriptures. Which by the ways says nothing about death.
and the parable in Luke 16 is actually explain very nicely in Roman 11 by Paul.
Also of note is that even if you do not believe it is a parable (even though scripture says Jesus did not open His mouth except in parables) Luke 16 hell here is thrown into the second death. And AFTER ALL judgment has been past (and that includes the second death judgment) and we see the New Jerusalem set up, the new heaven and earth established, we see those who are WITHOUT the gates of the city, the dogs, murderers adulterers, etc. have a right to enter into the city of God and freely take of the tree of life once they learn to keep Gods commandments.
already explained the Luke 13 scriptures. Which by the ways says nothing about death.
and the parable in Luke 16 is actually explain very nicely in Roman 11 by Paul.
Also of note is that even if you do not believe it is a parable (even though scripture says Jesus did not open His mouth except in parables) Luke 16 hell here is thrown into the second death. And AFTER ALL judgment has been past (and that includes the second death judgment) and we see the New Jerusalem set up, the new heaven and earth established, we see those who are WITHOUT the gates of the city, the dogs, murderers adulterers, etc. have a right to enter into the city of God and freely take of the tree of life once they learn to keep Gods commandments.
Nice try though.
27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.
27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.
and where do they depart to jim? outside the gate, and once those outside the gate learn to keep Gods commandments they have right to the tree of life and can enter in through the gate into the city.
No matter what scriptures you guys bring up to try and prove Jesus Christ is NOT the saviour of ALL MEN will fall far short because AFTER everything has been done, ALL judgment already past we see those without the gate getting saved. Therefore every scripture you guys bring up will be talking about BEFORE all these things have happened.
What I fined disturbing in Christians however is the fact that they try and prove Jesus Christ is NOT the saviour of ALL MEN. Why would a Christian try to undermine Jesus Christ and that which He has done when scripture is plain that He is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe, this command and teach.
Do you guys not see that you are teaching contrary to what we are commanded to teach? That you guys go around trying to find scriptures that say Jesus Christ is NOT the saviour of ALL MEN? Do you not see that you guys teach a different gospel then what we are commanded to teach? Do you guys not see that you cannot reconcile those scriptures that say God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN with your doctrines of eternal torment and annihilation? All scripture must be reconcilable and your doctrines CANNOT reconcile them. Yet if you believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN every scripture concerning that which He has done for men become reconcilable.
The doctrines of eternal torment and annihilation have a stronghold on men's live and that stronghold must be broken down by the gospel of Jesus Christ, and as we have seen time and time again the gospel we are COMMANDED to TEACH is that Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN.
and where do they depart to jim? outside the gate, and once those outside the gate learn to keep Gods commandments they have right to the tree of life and can enter in through the gate into the city.
No matter what scriptures you guys bring up to try and prove Jesus Christ is NOT the saviour of ALL MEN will fall far short because AFTER everything has been done, ALL judgment already past we see those without the gate getting saved. Therefore every scripture you guys bring up will be talking about BEFORE all these things have happened.
What I fined disturbing in Christians however is the fact that they try and prove Jesus Christ is NOT the saviour of ALL MEN. Why would a Christian try to undermine Jesus Christ and that which He has done when scripture is plain that He is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe, this command and teach.
Do you guys not see that you are teaching contrary to what we are commanded to teach? That you guys go around trying to find scriptures that say Jesus Christ is NOT the saviour of ALL MEN? Do you not see that you guys teach a different gospel then what we are commanded to teach? Do you guys not see that you cannot reconcile those scriptures that say God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN with your doctrines of eternal torment and annihilation? All scripture must be reconcilable and your doctrines CANNOT reconcile them. Yet if you believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN every scripture concerning that which He has done for men become reconcilable.
The doctrines of eternal torment and annihilation have a stronghold on men's live and that stronghold must be broken down by the gospel of Jesus Christ, and as we have seen time and time again the gospel we are COMMANDED to TEACH is that Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN.
Where do we see "those without the gate getting saved"?
You keep repeating that kjw, but refuse to believe God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN. You say that He is then post scripture to trying to show that He is not.
Can you read---my first sentence---God( Jehovah is savior--he does it through Jesus which makes him savior too--that is why they are both called savior.
Final Judgement is the place of final correction. There is what you need to understand. God knows the END from the BEGINNING. He did not create in vain. He did not give life in vain to anyone.
No he didn't--he gave all a choice( Deut 30:19--their own actions have chosen wrong. Satan has mislead 99% for the majority of history.
Can you read---my first sentence---God( Jehovah is savior--he does it through Jesus which makes him savior too--that is why they are both called savior.
I agree with your first sentence kjw, what I am pointing out is that Gods and Jesus Christ are the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN, which is something you seem not to agree with, for if you believe in eternal torment or annihilation they are just not compatible with the scriptures that state God and Jesus are the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN.
Where do we see "those without the gate getting saved"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Read post 191 Jimmie.
All I see is you stretching and pulling the scriptures to make them say what you want. If UR was true, then it wouldn't take such effort.
"especially of those who believe." What foes that mean to you?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
