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Objective John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son" .... (the message of the cross)
Subjective John 3:16 "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" .... (the result of belief vs. rejecting the message of the cross)
That has always been the message. God searches the heart for the subjective.
Without the subjective the individual is damned eternally.
With the subjective the individual is saved eternally.
The message of the cross must be present in the heart as being a subjective ownership, not the Satanical alternative half truth \ lie that only the Objective matters and if you happen to not get it right this time around ... oh well, next time.
1 Chronicles 28:9 ....for the Lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them."
John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
The objective and the subjective as you put it follow universalist teaching twin, and you know this, but lie about it) every knee bowing and tongue confessing would be the subjective.
And the Gospel is spelled out in that we are COMMANDED to TEACH and TESTIFY that Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, especailly those that believe.
If the teaching that Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specailly those that believe we would not be COMMANDED to TEACH it.
So when you say what I/we believe and teach is a satanic lie you are saying that the scriptures that state God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN is a satanic lie for that is exactly what we teach.
Now if someone teaching something other then what we are commanded to teach would that not make them an enemy of the cross?
So when you say what I/we believe and teach is a satanic lie you are saying that the scriptures that state God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN is a satanic lie for that is exactly what we teach.
Once again, God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN is a satanic lie because "ALL" does not mean "ALL inclusive".
The Satanical lie is to conclude that "ALL ='s ALL INCLUSIVE" despite God really saying:
1 Chronicles 28:9
John 3:36
John 12:48
Matthew 25:31-45
Matthew 12:31-32
...... just to list a few
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Now if someone teaching something other then what we are commanded to teach would that not make them an enemy of the cross?
No one is commanded to teach "ALL = ALL INCLUSIVE (at some point) other than those who are perverting the truth by the listening to their father the devil who claims it is despite what God said [as an example listed above].
When Matthew 25:31-46 becomes reality the "all inclusive" Satanical lie will become self evident.
Once again, God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN is a satanic lie because "ALL" does not mean "ALL inclusive".
The Satanical lie is to conclude that "ALL ='s ALL INCLUSIVE"
No one is commanded to teach "ALL = ALL INCLUSIVE (at some point) other than those who are perverting the truth by the listening to their father the devil who claims it is despite what God said [as an example listed above].
When Matthew 25:31-46 becomes reality the "all inclusive" Satanical lie will become self evident.
You confuse salvation mwith sanctification and that is why you are in error. We have NOTHING to do with our SALVATION. Nothing! That is why it applies to the whole world. There is nothing anyone needs to do to be saved. To believe otherwise is to boast that we can have anything to do with it. We are specifically commanded to teach it . . . but we are never commanded to teach any of the things you believe about salvation because they do NOT apply to our salvation . . . just our sanctification.
1 Timothy 4:9-11
9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God,who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11These things command and teach.
John 4:42
42 They told the woman, "We no longer have faith in Jesus just because of what you told us. We have heard Him ourselves, and we are certain that He is the Savior of the world!"
1 John 4:14
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son the Saviour of the world.
There is no streching involed jim, those scripture are just as plainly spoken as the ones that say God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN. You just cannot except it to be true, so look to find scripture that says God is NOT the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN. So what you guys do in effect is instead of proving the scriptures you try to disprove them.
Go ahead let's see how you guys reconcile those 3 scriptures I gave which state God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN with your belief in eternal torment or annihilation.
It's answered with, "especially of those who believe". There is no scripture that says that is possible after "the Master shuts the door". "Depart from me, I never knew you". "Between you and here is a great chasm, which no man can cross".
Especially those that believe is in reference to the overcomer. However if you cannot except that, it can also be looked at this way.
Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, especially those that believe (that He is the saviour of ALL MEN) this command and teach. but know you ain't going to like that one
You're right, I ain't buyin' it. This is what I meant by stretching the Scripture. Believe is referring confessing and believing in your heart, in the redemptive work of Christ.
Once again, God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN is a satanic lie because "ALL" does not mean "ALL inclusive".
The Satanical lie is to conclude that "ALL ='s ALL INCLUSIVE" despite God really saying:
1 Chronicles 28:9
John 3:36
John 12:48
Matthew 25:31-45
Matthew 12:31-32
...... just to list a few
No one is commanded to teach "ALL = ALL INCLUSIVE (at some point) other than those who are perverting the truth by the listening to their father the devil who claims it is despite what God said [as an example listed above].
When Matthew 25:31-46 becomes reality the "all inclusive" Satanical lie will become self evident.
In other word twin you admit you do not believe the scripture that say Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specailly those that believe. You believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of SOME MEN, especially those that believe.
So when the scriptures say that God is the saviour of the WORLD it must only mean God is the saviour of SOME of the WORLD.
No scripture states what you want them to state twin, you accuse me of twisting the scriptures to suit a satanic doctrine, but every reader can easily see that it is you that has to twist the scriptures to suit you doctrine.
So what it boils down to twin is that you do not believe the scriptures mean what they say. No wonder you cannot believe in the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
It's answered with, "especially of those who believe". There is no scripture that says that is possible after "the Master shuts the door". "Depart from me, I never knew you". "Between you and here is a great chasm, which no man can cross".
Again you apply a parable you do not understand to mean those without the gates cannot enter in, which is folly for as I already pointed out to you that the parable shows the hell mentioned in the parable is cast into the lake of fire. Therefore the parable and the second death have nothing in common.
And I already showed you that those without the gates have the right to take of the water of life freely when they learn to keep Gods commandments. So scripture does show that after the door is closed as you put it people still can enter in though the gates into the city.
This is the problem with the eternal torment and annihilation doctrine, they simply do not believe the scriptures mean what they say. Thus every plain spoken scripture must be twisted beyond recognition by your guys doctrine.
You confuse salvation mwith sanctification and that is why you are in error. We have NOTHING to do with our SALVATION. Nothing! That is why it applies to the whole world. There is nothing anyone needs to do to be saved. To believe otherwise is to boast that we can have anything to do with it. We are specifically commanded to teach it . . . but we are never commanded to teach any of the things you believe about salvation because they do NOT apply to our salvation . . . just our sanctification.
1 Timothy 4:9-11
9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God,who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11These things command and teach.
John 4:42
42 They told the woman, "We no longer have faith in Jesus just because of what you told us. We have heard Him ourselves, and we are certain that He is the Savior of the world!"
1 John 4:14
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son the Saviour of the world.
But mystic those scripture if understood the way they are written is a santanic lie according to twin, and obviously a few others here.
What it boils down to is that they do not trust in the living God who IS the savior of ALL MEN.
You're right, I ain't buyin' it. This is what I meant by stretching the Scripture. Believe is referring confessing and believing in your heart, in the redemptive work of Christ.
Already covered that in post 191.
What is getting plainly obvious is that those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation do not believe what the scripture state.
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