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But it's ok to push your belief on me? Legalization of gay marriage is certainly pushing a belief. It is forcing all members of society to accept the union as equally natural and normal as traditional marriage. Your side acts like it's the religious people that want to take over and change the laws. But the reality is that it is the homosexual community that wants to change the already existing laws and traditional societal beliefs.
What is being forced on you is equal protection under the law..... forced on you by our Constitution
No, showing respect is keeping your religion out of legislation. As long as you aren't pushing (legally or otherwise) your beliefs on others then you're free to believe whatever you want provided it doesn't intervene with other people's rights.
"keeping your religion out of legislation" .... really
where did legislation get it's concept of limiting people's right to:
murder
theft
cheating on taxes
pornography
[i]t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue.
(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States,
Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, to Zabdiel
Adams on June 21, 1776.)
[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human
passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only
for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of
any other.
(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, and Co. 1854), Vol. IX, p. 229, October 11, 1798.)
"keeping your religion out of legislation" .... really
where did legislation get it's concept of limiting people's right to:
murder
theft
cheating on taxes
pornography
[i]t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue.
(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States,
Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, to Zabdiel
Adams on June 21, 1776.)
[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human
passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only
for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of
any other.
(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, and Co. 1854), Vol. IX, p. 229, October 11, 1798.)
LOL
We can start quoting the founding fathers if you really want to go down that road. I hope you get that the founding fathers were largely deist and that many didn't favor religion at all.
PS: America is not a Christian nation nor was it founded on the Christian religion.
“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams
Nothing is being forced on you at all. Marriage is a legally binding contract, it is a right of the people. Your religion has no right to control or legislate said contracts.
You don't want to marry a gay couple in church? Fine whatever! You have fun with that!
Thing is is that marriage is a LEGAL recognition of two people and NOT a religious one.
If that's the case then why are gay people not happy with just having civil unions? I completely agree that a gay couple should have not be denied legal benefits and services.
BUT that's not enough. They need that label "married" because it carries more weight than just a legal status. It's a social status forcing all members of society to accept their union as just as natural as a man and a woman.
If that's the case then why are gay people not happy with just having civil unions? I completely agree that a gay couple should have not be denied legal benefits and services.
BUT that's not enough. They need that label "married" because it carries more weight than just a legal status. It's a social status forcing all members of society to accept their union as just as natural as a man and a woman.
Because civil unions are not recognized the same as marriage in every respect legally. THAT'S why.
Also to repeat what I said earlier, marriage is a LEGAL contract. To say that heterosexuals are allowed to have it but not homosexuals is favoring one over the other and by principal is simply wrong!
But it's ok to push your belief on me? Legalization of gay marriage is certainly pushing a belief. It is forcing all members of society to accept the union as equally natural and normal as traditional marriage. Your side acts like it's the religious people that want to take over and change the laws. But the reality is that it is the homosexual community that wants to change the already existing laws and traditional societal beliefs.
Of course they want to change laws which unfairly discriminate against them.
Slavery was perfectly legal, for a time. Women had no legal right to vote, for a time. Until the last decade or so, homosexuals had no legal right to marry.
If that's the case then why are gay people not happy with just having civil unions? I completely agree that a gay couple should have not be denied legal benefits and services.
BUT that's not enough. They need that label "married" because it carries more weight than just a legal status. It's a social status forcing all members of society to accept their union as just as natural as a man and a woman.
Because civil unions do not bestow the same legal rights as does marriage.
But the reality is that it is the homosexual community that wants to change the already existing laws and traditional societal beliefs.
First point: it's not just the homosexual community that wants to change things. Yes, it's true. Many of us straights want to as well. I happen to LIKE the Constitution and believe it applies to all citizens.
Second point: Sixty years ago existing law in some states put African Americans in the back of the bus, in substandard schools and denied them the right to vote. They were also denied the right to marry a person of another race.
Existing laws were changed. Traditional societal beliefs changed. Guess where those changes started? Churches. Churches full of people who thought the Constitution applied to everyone. Here's one of them:
"keeping your religion out of legislation" .... really
where did legislation get it's concept of limiting people's right to:
murder
theft
cheating on taxes
pornography
Twin, wake up and smell the coffee. Our legal system is based on what it takes to run a moderately fair society. The fact that religious injunctions often match those requirements speaks well of that particular religion, but it is in no way because of religion that the laws required to run that society are made. It is when religious perceptions are opposed to what it takes to run a moderately fair society that we have to make certain that religion is left out of the decision.
Christians are called to be holy, or 'set apart' from the rest of the world. We may be in the world, but we are not to be of the world.
"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect." (Romans 12:2)
Indeed, society and the rest of the world are moving in a direction of immoral acceptance and normalcy, but as Christians, we serve an unchanging God who is the only source of objective morality and there is never a reason to reject it. (Malachi 3:6)
Jesus gave us the ultimate example of love toward all men, but some have come to think that love accepts or even condones the actions of all men. This is not the case as love cannot be joyful acceptance of that which hurts or negatively impacts. This would be hypocritical. Love without truth is not love at all. Anyone who is a parent understands the dichotomy of loving a person enough to tell them the truth of their negative actions.
All Christians should agree that God gave everyone free will to reject God and obey the lusts of their flesh. God has never condoned forced belief or obedience. He simply uses His children to spread the truth and either the seed takes root or withers and dies. It is extremely sad but followers of Christ will never be the majority. Ever. It is the duty of all followers of Christ to spread the gospel message to all who are lost and love them and it is also our duty to hold in truth those who are already believers, as Christ taught.
Everyone has a right to choose what they believe and it isn't a Christians duty to force people to believe. Speak the Word of God with confidence, and allow the Holy Spirit to work in peoples lives.
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