Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Nice try but your article is nothing more than a lot impressive sounding medical yark that doesn't prove anything. It certainly doesn't explain why people change their orientation or can't seem to make up their mind and label themselves as bi-sexual.
Meaning, you didn't understand it therefore you can ignore it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
People should not be led astray by revisionists like yourself who want to twist the scriptures into meaning something else. You do this only because Hebrew words can have multiple meanings, but logic and reason along with context can determine the true meaning.
I'm using logic and reason and context. You appear to be parroting what you have been told by others who want to twist the scriptures and take them out of context to mean something they didn't originally mean,.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The notion that the sin of Sodom was gang rape doesn't work logically for one main reason. God already decided beforehand to judge the city. The angels were the messengers of his judgement. Why would God destroy the city for an act they had not even committed? God decided to judge this city long before the angels arrived.
I never said the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was gang rape. The 'sins' of Sodom were described in Ezekiel 16:49. Excess pride, inhospitality to strangers (which would include behaviour like raping strangers to humiliate them) and abominable treatment of the poor etc. But the fact is, the threat of rape of strangers has nothing to do with gay people or homosexuality anyway. The vast majority of male rape is by heterosexual men to dominate and humiliate other men - like strangers, prisoners of war, in prison etc. Have you never read Judges 19 and the story of the Levite stranger?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
And that doesn't even consider the NT verses will clearly list sexual immorality as their sin. Jude 7 doesn't fit the gang rape interpretation at all. Jude 7 makes it clear that they were already engaging in a homosexual sinful lifestyle. God didn't wipe out a city for having divorce and adultry. But He did for homosexuality.
Jude says nothing at all of a 'homosexual lifestyle'. Where did you get that idea? The comment of 'strange flesh'? In Greek that's 'different flesh' (hetera sarkos), not 'same flesh'-ie it's referring to angels.
There is nothing about homosexuality in the Sodom story. At all. Male rape is not homosexuality.
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." -Jesus
Read it in context.... the source you are parroting missed the best part.
Nice try but your article is nothing more than a lot impressive sounding medical yark that doesn't prove anything. It certainly doesn't explain why people change their orientation or can't seem to make up their mind and label themselves as bi-sexual.
People should not be led astray by revisionists like yourself who want to twist the scriptures into meaning something else. You do this only because Hebrew words can have multiple meanings, but logic and reason along with context can determine the true meaning. The notion that the sin of Sodom was gang rape doesn't work logically for one main reason. God already decided beforehand to judge the city. The angels were the messengers of his judgement. Why would God destroy the city for an act they had not even committed? God decided to judge this city long before the angels arrived. And that doesn't even consider the NT verses will clearly list sexual immorality as their sin. Jude 7 doesn't fit the gang rape interpretation at all. Jude 7 makes it clear that they were already engaging in a homosexual sinful lifestyle. God didn't wipe out a city for having divorce and adultry. But He did for homosexuality.
Buddy from reading some of your other post on CD, l have come to the conclusion that you are the poster child of "getting your own house in order" before telling others how to live their lives.
Ack. Quacks. Shaming people into wasting their money, time and emotional energy on this harmful quackery is disgusting. Reading the evidence-free discredited nonsense they promote about the so called 'causes' of homosexuality is like taking a trip back to the 1950's.
Here's a mainstream published study on that type of 'sexual orientation change effort':
Abstract
This study examined sexual orientation change efforts (SOCE) by 1,612 individuals who are current or former members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS). Data were obtained through a comprehensive online survey from both quantitative items and open-ended written responses. A minimum of 73% ofmen and 43% of women in this sample attempted sexual orientation change, usually through multiple methods and across many years (on average).
Developmental factors associated with attempts at sexual orientation change included higher levels of early religious orthodoxy (for all) and less supportive families and communities (for men only). Among women, those who identified as lesbian and who reported higher Kinsey attraction scores were more likely to have sought change. Of the 9 different methods surveyed, private and religious change methods (compared with therapist-led or group-based efforts) were the most common, started earlier, exercised for longer periods, and reported to be the most damaging and least effective.
When sexual orientation change was identified as a goal, reported effectiveness was lower for almost all of the methods. While some beneficial SOCE outcomes (such as acceptance of same-sex attractions and reduction in depression and anxiety)were reported, the overall results support the conclusion that sexual orientation is highly resistant to explicit attempts at change and that SOCE are overwhelmingly reported to be either ineffective or damaging by participants.
I think Jews understand the Hebrew Bible a lot better than so-called Christians. Something like five percent of the population is being condemned as being immoral because of a mistranslation of a couple of Greek words.
homosexuality is forbidden according to Jewish Law under the penalty of death (when Jews had their own court system)
This is clear from an elementary understanding of Hebrew, and is also clear from every single Jewish interpretation (from authentic source or heretical source) up until the gay rights movement took off.
homosexuality is forbidden according to Jewish Law under the penalty of death (when Jews had their own court system)
This is clear from an elementary understanding of Hebrew, and is also clear from every single Jewish interpretation (from authentic source or heretical source) up until the gay rights movement took off.
Their are a lot of Jews that disagree with that. Your religion has as many fundamentalist hardliners in it percentage wise as Christianity. And don't tell me I know "nothing" about Jewish life. My son has worked for an Israeli company for over three years in close contact with a very orthodox Jewish woman. He once considered converting. She told him not to. And his boss, also an Israeli, states that roughly 90% of Israeli Jews are agnostic.
So are you saying in opposition to rabbis that I quoted that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was sexual sin? Then it doesn't account for the words in Ezekiel and Jeremiah. If God's judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah was about homosexuality, then the authors of Ezekiel and Jeremiah were liars?
I never said the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was gang rape. The 'sins' of Sodom were described in Ezekiel 16:49. Excess pride, inhospitality to strangers (which would include behaviour like raping strangers to humiliate them) and abominable treatment of the poor etc. But the fact is, the threat of rape of strangers has nothing to do with gay people or homosexuality anyway. The vast majority of male rape is by heterosexual men to dominate and humiliate other men - like strangers, prisoners of war, in prison etc. Have you never read Judges 19 and the story of the Levite stranger?
To say that Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed because of homosexuality is a later
Sdom being destroyed for sexual immorality is based in Jewish tradition. the medrash tanchuma says that sdom was destroyed because of znus, which means sexual immorality.
Considering that the only sexual crime explicit in the verses in berashis (Genesis) is homosexuality (they turned down Lot's daughters) homosexuality is clearly a cause.
furthermore the word toevah (abomination) (the same word that is used in vayikra (leviticus) regarding homosexuality) is used in Yechezkel (Ezekiel) in the next verse continuing the sins of Sdmom, after the one you referred to "they did an abomination before me"
the word toevah (abomination) here is singular as opposed to the other times mentioned in this chapter which makes it more implement it's referring to a specific indecent that is called toevah (abomination) elsewhere in the torah bible.
find me one pre 1950, considering most interpretations came before then I expect you can give a tremendous amount if it truly exicsted
Quote:
Your religion has as many fundamentalist hardliners in it percentage wise as Christianity.
whether true or not it's irreverent to whether or not your rereading your post modern interpretation into the bible despite the fact that all Jewish commentators from kosher Jews to karites, to early reform Jews all interpreted these verses the same exact way
Quote:
And don't tell me I know "nothing" about Jewish life. My son has worked for an Israeli company for over three years in close contact with a very orthodox Jewish woman.
so what
Quote:
He once considered converting. She told him not to.
if he was pro homosexuality then she was 100 right
Quote:
And his boss, also an Israeli, states that roughly 90% of Israeli Jews are agnostic.
Isreal is in fact one of the only countries in the world that has a growing rate of belief in God
Quote:
So are you saying in opposition to rabbis that I quoted that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was sexual sin?
No I'm saying that not a single one of those rabbis say that there was only one sin
I'm translating this right now
Quote:
rabbi Yehoshua the son of levi says in the name of bar kapra on everything God holds off punishment except for sexual immorality.
Rabbi Yehuda the son of nechma says even sdom because they (pirtzu masehem biznus) were open in their sexual immorality, it rained upon them fire and sulpher from the sky and they were burned
Quote:
Then it doesn't account for the words in Ezekiel and Jeremiah. If God's judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah was about homosexuality, then the authors of Ezekiel and Jeremiah were liars?
no it is very implement in Ezekiel homosexuality due to the word abomination in the way it appears.
Jewish tradition attaches the word abomination more to homosexuality then any other sin the word appears by, due to the fact that all the sexual sins in leviticus are called toevah (abominations) and homosexuality is thus singled out as a abomination on a list of abominations.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Reading the 