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"everyone that believes in Jesus as our Savior is a Christian", this has a totally different meaning to the LDS than from what the Bible teaches, (Mike as if you haven't heard that before.)
I believe in everything that the Bible teaches and I am LDS, go figure.
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Who are you saying that to? Those who are weak in faith, not know what the Bible teaches? Those who just blindly accept somebody confession without checking out for themselves if its true?
Are you worthy or of authority to judge who is and who is not a Christian? I know I am not.
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I know that the LDS doctrine about the person of Jesus, unbelief of the trinity, that "savior" has a different connotation than as the way Jesus taught in the Bible. I could no more fool you to think I'm a professional realtor than you could me about the LDS being a Christian Church that preaches "Christ crucified" 1 Corinthians 1:23, "By faith not works"
The "trinity" is not found in the Bible. It is all interpretation. As long as I accept Christ as my savior, then I can do anything I want, live anyway I want to live and I will be looked at just as favorably as someone who lived their entire life being Christ-like and helping anyone that they could? As long as I accept Christ, why should I even try after that?
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If you believe your own statement, then read this from Paul (exchange the word LDS for Galatians)
Galatians 3:1-3 (New International Version) Galatians 3
Faith or Observance of the Law
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
I know of no harsher warning in the Bible that speaks to the LDS.
I don't strive to be the best person I can be for rewards or anything else once I die. I do them because we should all ( IMO ) do as Christ did. And switching out one group for another is pretty trivial. You can do that with any denomination and try to prove a point.
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Honestly, why do the words of former LDS members of numerous years have no validity?
Aaron was correct. A non-member does not equal an ex-member. And even then it is 2nd hand knowledge. Why would you give more weight to a non-member than a current member? Hopefully not just to feed a personal agenda. IMO they should atleast be given equal footing.
The "trinity" is not found in the Bible. It is all interpretation. As long as I accept Christ as my savior, then I can do anything I want, live anyway I want to live and I will be looked at just as favorably as someone who lived their entire life being Christ-like and helping anyone that they could? As long as I accept Christ, why should I even try after that?
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I don't strive to be the best person I can be for rewards or anything else once I die. I do them because we should all ( IMO ) do as Christ did.
Don't these two statements conflict with each other?
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Originally Posted by HsvMike
Aaron was correct. A non-member does not equal an ex-member. And even then it is 2nd hand knowledge. Why would you give more weight to a non-member than a current member? Hopefully not just to feed a personal agenda. IMO they should atleast be given equal footing.
I'm confused. Are you saying non-Mormons have 2nd hand knowledge? Or ex-Mormons?
Don't these two statements conflict with each other?
I was trying to make a point when twin brings up "by faith not works". The once saved / always saved way of thinking ( which I do not agree with ) as far as I see it states as long as you accept Christ then you can live any way you want to, no matter what you do in this life you will be saved. IMO you need to accept Christ as your savior, but you still need to live your life as Christ-like as possible and always strive to do your best.
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I'm confused. Are you saying non-Mormons have 2nd hand knowledge? Or ex-Mormons?
Twin said he had knowledge of Mormons and their doctrine from ex-members. I stated that his knowledge of the LDS church is 2nd hand knowledge, not as if he found it out for himself.
I was trying to make a point when twin brings up "by faith not works". The once saved / always saved way of thinking ( which I do not agree with ) as far as I see it states as long as you accept Christ then you can live any way you want to, no matter what you do in this life you will be saved. IMO you need to accept Christ as your savior, but you still need to live your life as Christ-like as possible and always strive to do your best.
But is striving to do your best necessary for salvation? As I see it, there are at least three views here:
All who believe in Jesus will be saved.
In order to be saved you must believe in Jesus *and* do certain works
Through Jesus, all will be saved, whether they believe or not
All three views have been around for a long time.
I think twin.spin holds the first view, Mormonism teaches the second, and I lean toward the third.
If I read twin.spin correctly, he thinks only people who believe the first view are Christians. (Twin.spin, did I represent you accurately there?) I have no problems calling all three groups Christian. And therein lies the central disagreement, I think.
But is striving to do your best necessary for salvation? As I see it, there are at least three views here:
All who believe in Jesus will be saved.
In order to be saved you must believe in Jesus *and* do certain works
Through Jesus, all will be saved, whether they believe or not
All three views have been around for a long time.
I think twin.spin holds the first view, Mormonism teaches the second, and I lean toward the third.
If I read twin.spin correctly, he thinks only people who believe the first view are Christians. (Twin.spin, did I represent you accurately there?) I have no problems calling all three groups Christian. And therein lies the central disagreement, I think.
Well the first thing you need to do is accept Jesus Christ, but then aren't you still judged for what you do on this earth? I think it is widely accepted that you will be judged.
IMO in all three scenarios, they are all Christians.
It is true that we can only be saved through Jesus Christ but I can not and will never understand the thinking that all you need to do is accept Jesus Christ. To me it sounds like a cop out to live one's life to their accord and not the Savior's. Did Jesus not teach to be ye perfect even as my Father in Heaven is perfect (which IMO is one of many scriptures that seems to debunk the trinity but we won't go there ). Do no other faiths excluding mormonism believe in accountability for one's actions and as mike said that we will all be judged for our actions? I just cannot believe as some claim that as long as you accept Jesus as Savior (even if you were a murderer and on your deathbed) you will be saved.
Well the first thing you need to do is accept Jesus Christ, but then aren't you still judged for what you do on this earth? I think it is widely accepted that you will be judged.
IMO in all three scenarios, they are all Christians.
Mike, I'm guessing that those who hold to the view that belief is all you need to be saved believe that we will be judged on our belief and not on our actions.
But someone else should weigh in on this. Mormonism was my native language, and although I am learning others, sometimes I have a pretty thick accent.
Mike, I'm guessing that those who hold to the view that belief is all you need to be saved believe that we will be judged on our belief and not on our actions.
But someone else should weigh in on this. Mormonism was my native language, and although I am learning others, sometimes I have a pretty thick accent.
Jesus died for all the sinners of the world, Satan does not have claim any longer.
That said, there are kingdoms, and we shall inherit the kingdom that we obey.
Outer darkness is reserved for the sons of perdition (those that completely reject the love of Christ). Their end is a merciful destruction, they are few.
If we desire to live according to the pattern that Christ gave, then we will inherit His kingdom. If we choose to live lesser, then we will inherit a lesser.
There are degrees of glory, and degrees of bodies in the ressurection.
The highest degree of glory is that of Jesus, Elijah, Enoch, John the beloved, and all the Saints that have overcome sin while in the flesh (the Church of the Firstborn). The quickening or transfiguration that Jesus taught is available to all, but few will find it.
Jesus died for all the sinners of the world, Satan does not have claim any longer.
That said, there are kingdoms, and we shall inherit the kingdom that we obey.
Outer darkness is reserved for the sons of perdition (those that completely reject the love of Christ). Their end is a merciful destruction, they are few.
If we desire to live according to the pattern that Christ gave, then we will inherit His kingdom. If we choose to live lesser, then we will inherit a lesser.
There are degrees of glory, and degrees of bodies in the ressurection.
The highest degree of glory is that of Jesus, Elijah, Enoch, John the beloved, and all the Saints that have overcome sin while in the flesh (the Church of the Firstborn). The quickening or transfiguration that Jesus taught is available to all, but few will find it.
No, i'm a seeker of truth. I believe in all inspired scriptures as God reveals His glory through the Holy spirit.
godspeed,
freedom
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). Do no other faiths excluding mormonism believe in accountability for one's actions and as mike said that we will all be judged for our actions? I just cannot believe as some claim that as long as you accept Jesus as Savior (even if you were a murderer and on your deathbed) you will be saved.
