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And by the way, the way that you're attempting to limit possible answers and make it a no-win is sort of like the old "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" question.
If Jesus wasn't a liar, and he didn't say all the things the Gospel said, then the question is defunct...and yes, that IS a possibility. OTOH, there's no reason to assume that he told the truth, either...no matter what he said. We really can't know. The above makes a good bumper sticker but not a great basis for a theological argument, IMO.
We know what he said. Several people have told us and they were witnesses to his life and teachings.
Do you not find it interesting that nearly 700 years before Jesus was born, his birth and many other details of his life were prophesized?
No, I find that it makes perfect sense, actually. The Jews got tired of waiting for their messiah, a time period came when various prophets popped up in response to that as well as to the yoke of Roman rule (apparently Jewish prophets were not rare in the first century), various were "followed" at least for a time, all failed (including Jesus, who was killed), a mythology was created around him that managed to "fulfill" various OT scriptures retroactively (by fitting and re-fitting the story...you can see the evolution of this in the Gospels), at least if they were interpreted in just the right way; and spiritually rather than tangibly, making it impossible to categorically refute (nobody having actually seen heaven).
People didn't want to wait any more. They NEEDED (or felt they needed) a messiah, in the face of Roman occupation. When an actual Biblical messiah - one that would actually save them from tangible tyranny - never came, the OT "scripture" was all re-read as being spiritual rather than literal, and people felt relief in the idea of a world to come, an invisible one that nobody could confirm, but indeed, could not categorically deny either, giving it that benefit of a doubt.
In that way I don't find it odd at all. It fits in perfectly with human wants and needs, as well as the political climate of the time. However, if by "interesting" you mean from a human psychology POV, I do find it interesting.
Merry Christmas to you too. I love Christmas. Egg nog, singing, gift-giving, children believing in Santa Claus, reindeer, snowmen, twinkling lights, Christmas trees...I think it's fantastic! Have always loved this holiday.
No, I find that it makes perfect sense, actually. The Jews got tired of waiting for their messiah, a time period came when various prophets popped up in response to that as well as to the yoke of Roman rule (apparently Jewish prophets were not rare in the first century), various were "followed" at least for a time, all failed (including Jesus, who was killed), a mythology was created around him that managed to "fulfill" various OT scriptures retroactively (by fitting and re-fitting the story...you can see the evolution of this in the Gospels), at least if they were interpreted in just the right way; and spiritually rather than tangibly, making it impossible to categorically refute (nobody having actually seen heaven).
People didn't want to wait any more. They NEEDED (or felt they needed) a messiah, in the face of Roman occupation. When an actual Biblical messiah - one that would actually save them from tangible tyranny - never came, the OT "scripture" was all re-read as being spiritual rather than literal, and people felt relief in the idea of a world to come, an invisible one that nobody could confirm, but indeed, could not categorically deny either, giving it that benefit of a doubt.
In that way I don't find it odd at all. It fits in perfectly with human wants and needs, as well as the political climate of the time. However, if by "interesting" you mean from a human psychology POV, I do find it interesting.
Merry Christmas to you too. I love Christmas. Egg nog, singing, gift-giving, children believing in Santa Claus, reindeer, snowmen, twinkling lights, Christmas trees...I think it's fantastic! Have always loved this holiday.
So Jesus failed? Wow! And, here I am some 2100 years later appreciating his failure. Wow! Think about what it would be like if He had succeeded. I guess you would be a Christian then. Or not.
Not really. I just read and think about the words that are actually there, as opposed to the ones I imagine are there. Christians like to imagine that Jesus claimed to be God, for example, though I can't find a single place where he is recorded to actually have said such a thing.
I, on the other hand, read where Jesus told his disciples that he had an entirely different message for those who had ears to hear (Matthew 13). So when I read about a story that makes absolutely no sense on the surface of it, such as the story of the destruction of the fig tree, for example, I start digging to find the deeper meaning. I'm not saying my interpretation is necessarily the correct one, but I do consider it to be a more, uh, interesting alternative to the utterly unsatisfying explanations that seem to hold Christians in thrall.
of course he had to lie. if you don't know why you shouldn't offer comments. Well you can offer comments I guess, like my 5yr old did about his veggies. Then we need to explore why everyhting has to "all matter" or "nothing matters" world view. I kinda think jesus meant use your head, but thats just me.
of course he had to lie. if you don't know why you shouldn't offer comments. Well you can offer comments I guess, like my 5yr old did about his veggies. Then we need to explore why everyhting has to "all matter" or "nothing matters" world view. I kinda think jesus meant use your head, but thats just me.
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