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2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Here is an example given of someone erring from the truth and had their faith overthrown wherein they no longer believe any more.
I can cite another example like the evolution theory in causing that same result. Some believers try to rationalize the evolution theory with the Bible and therefore still believe, but there are former believers because of the evolution theory.
But moving on to the question of the OP; in spite of these former believers, Paul goes on to testify this truth that the former believers are still His, but they are still called to depart from iniquity.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Now in context, discern the identity of those that are vessels unto dishonour in His House.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Does this not infer that the vessels unto dishonour that are in His House are former believers as well as believers that have gone astray that are still saved as His?
More scripture to be edified by at this link to this thread:
The Lord Denying You Does Not Mean You Are NOT Saved
but there are former believers because of the evolution theory.
You are mistaken. People aren't former believers because of the evolution theory. The real story is that they were taught by some other Christians that evolution and the bible's account of creation could not both be true. So, when it became impossible for them to deny that evolution is true, they felt forced to accept that they'd been lied to, that the bible's account of the creation, taken literally, could not possibly be true, and since they'd been told the bible was an all or nothing deal (believe it all, literally, or it's worthless) they had to abandon the bible, and therefore Christianity.
So, if you're looking for one of the real culprits for why people abandon Christianity stop blaming evolution when the real problem is those who insist that Christians must accept the bible as if it is a science and/or history textbook, as well as insisting that authors of the bible had an infallible understanding of the character of God. Stop indoctrinating people with an inerrant/literal all-or-nothing view of the bible, which is completely untenable for anyone who is willing to be honest with themselves.
Why does this feel like I came in halfway through a conversation? You're suggesting someone is not saved because they believe in evolution? Is that it?
You are mistaken. People aren't former believers because of the evolution theory. The real story is that they were taught by some other Christians that evolution and the bible's account of creation could not both be true. So, when it became impossible for them to deny that evolution is true, they felt forced to accept that they'd been lied to, that the bible's account of the creation, taken literally, could not possibly be true, and since they'd been told the bible was an all or nothing deal (believe it all, literally, or it's worthless) they had to abandon the bible, and therefore Christianity.
The point of the OP was not about blaming the evolution theory for why christians do not believe, but citing another example how some will err from the truth and have their faith overthrown.
Quote:
So, if you're looking for one of the real culprits for why people abandon Christianity stop blaming evolution when the real problem is those who insist that Christians must accept the bible as if it is a science and/or history textbook, as well as insisting that authors of the bible had an infallible understanding of the character of God. Stop indoctrinating people with an inerrant/literal all-or-nothing view of the bible, which is completely untenable for anyone who is willing to be honest with themselves.
Your attempt at guilt tripping has failed. Believers can only find the truth by His words as they have been kept by those that loved Him and His words in the King James Bible, but only God can help you see that truth.
Why does this feel like I came in halfway through a conversation? You're suggesting someone is not saved because they believe in evolution? Is that it?
No. Don't let Pleroo's reply deviate from the question of the OP.
Look at the references cited in the OP and ask yourself whom are the vessels unto dishonour in His House? Does it not appear to be those that did not depart from iniquity to be that vessel unto honour?
You are mistaken. People aren't former believers because of the evolution theory. The real story is that they were taught by some other Christians that evolution and the bible's account of creation could not both be true. So, when it became impossible for them to deny that evolution is true, they felt forced to accept that they'd been lied to, that the bible's account of the creation, taken literally, could not possibly be true, and since they'd been told the bible was an all or nothing deal (believe it all, literally, or it's worthless) they had to abandon the bible, and therefore Christianity.
So, if you're looking for one of the real culprits for why people abandon Christianity stop blaming evolution when the real problem is those who insist that Christians must accept the bible as if it is a science and/or history textbook, as well as insisting that authors of the bible had an infallible understanding of the character of God. Stop indoctrinating people with an inerrant/literal all-or-nothing view of the bible, which is completely untenable for anyone who is willing to be honest with themselves.
Well said, Pleroo. Those who think they MUST believe the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God instead of following Christ's instructions to "love God and each other" every day and repent when they don't are the vessels of dishonor.
The point of the OP was not about blaming the evolution theory for why christians do not believe, but citing another example how some will err from the truth and have their faith overthrown.
Your attempt at guilt tripping has failed. Believers can only find the truth by His words as they have been kept by those that loved Him and His words in the King James Bible, but only God can help you see that truth.
You even believe in the King James Only dogma as well? Well, I wish you well, but I would likely never find myself on the "same page" with you about spiritual things. But it's okay - God is a big God and his Kingdom is a large place with many mansions.
You are mistaken. People aren't former believers because of the evolution theory. The real story is that they were taught by some other Christians that evolution and the bible's account of creation could not both be true. So, when it became impossible for them to deny that evolution is true, they felt forced to accept that they'd been lied to, that the bible's account of the creation, taken literally, could not possibly be true, and since they'd been told the bible was an all or nothing deal (believe it all, literally, or it's worthless) they had to abandon the bible, and therefore Christianity.
So, if you're looking for one of the real culprits for why people abandon Christianity stop blaming evolution when the real problem is those who insist that Christians must accept the bible as if it is a science and/or history textbook, as well as insisting that authors of the bible had an infallible understanding of the character of God. Stop indoctrinating people with an inerrant/literal all-or-nothing view of the bible, which is completely untenable for anyone who is willing to be honest with themselves.
This may be the "truest" post I have ever read. Evolution is how life seems to adapt and grow. Not weather there is a god or not. "evolution" is often misused by both sides. "God did it through evolution". Try that one. But what turns people like me away is "literal religion". "Jesus" when speaking in terms of life and how an organism "lives" can be shown to be alive to a degree. But to say I have to believe "literal rising" to be in the club means I don't join that club
.
"Evolution" is a false focal point. No matter how precise we are about evolution when we talk about it as anti-Christ or no god needed we are not accurate. The universe provides things that are need to reduce anxiety in a species. It takes the forms of non belief, belief, or somewhere in between sometimes. "probability" seems to be a trait of god design. If you believe in god that is.
It all circles back to literal bible as "false". And it is not the bible fault, the bible is a great book. It is even a good central theme for a religion. But it is the people that push it off as "literal" that are "false" and these people are the ones that turn people away.
The others Christians have to stand up against these "literal" people. It is ok to say "no, you're are wrong when you teach literal bible". When they ask "but who decides and how do we know?" You answer "We decide,as a group, and we do the best we can through/with reason."
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