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Well, it seems I have encountered another magical thinker with unreasoning credulity. When you embrace hatred and conflict and "eye for an eye" nonsense rejected by Christ we are simply not on the same spiritual plane. My turn to abandon discourse because it is fruitless. You will believe whatever nonsense you wish to believe and nothing I say or do can ever change that. You are loved whatever you believe . . . but I have nothing further to say to you.
1 Peter 4
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
Jesus Fulfilling the Law encompassed us. Being the Alpha and Omega.
We are now in the midst of the Law. So that through Jesus we will made into a new image by the Comforter, Holy Spirit.
The Law will be written on the Heart.
Being Grafted onto the Tree of Life.
A Marriage of meeting a Bride at the well. Jacob, Moses, so many taught us to Find the water of Life that comes through Jesus Glorifying God. Not only water for the Tree but oil for its lamps to give Light to the world. And the Holy Spirit is a guiding Light to bring us back to God.
The Law is a message of things to come.
8And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? 9And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon. 10And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.11And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away. 12And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. 13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. 15And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. 16But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. 17And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. 18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Genesis 17 King James Version (KJV)
17 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Considering the Sacrifice arrangement and circumcision. What are they considered to a Jehovah"s witness. (singular) according to the arrangement their are 2 lamp stands on either side of the candle stick. 2 birds not split.?
The sacrifice arrangement given to Abraham is a pattern. And of course the priest understood the meaning is in the pattern. The ritual tradition is for remembrance. With Genesis up to the 10th generation Noah is of oral tradition. The pattern is given to show us the Ark. The Heart. The Law is written in our hearts.
With Abraham 3 clean are divided to give 6 as the 7th(fire walks through) The pattern is an arrangement(covenant) given to be remembered as Something given to us by God.
This pattern reveals the Candle sticks 7. With 2 birds(not divided) representing 2 lamps on either side.
Above I give to help visualize.
The arrangement of the 3 sacrifices are The 3 intersections on the center shaft of the outside 6 branches. representing the Heifer, Ram, and She goat. The center shaft and 7th candle is the (Fire) that walked through the split sacrifices.
This was Given to Abraham.
And from this pattern we can see the abominations. The ones that pervert the clean animals into an unclean meaning. The bull of molech. etc.
A shadow of things to come.
AMEN and AMEN! It's also a pattern of restored man, woman, and child(-ren), with Christ as the Head. This why the branches were not originally bowed in shape, but straight up, as arms lifted up to HaShem. And why the arms were lifted up by 2 before battle could be won because that is the pattern of restored man. And why there were 3 on the mount and why He said to let the children come unto Him, for such is the kingdom of heaven. Peace
YHVH(Jehovah) this is the God of the OT--served by Abraham, Issac, Noah, Moses, David, Isaiah, Elijah, Daniel, etc. As well taught to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter--and Jesus. taught and served as a single being God. Served as a single being God to this day.
Jesus attended the places of worship to worship this God--his Father--like this-John 4:22-24
Jesus teaches that the Father is his God--John 20:17, rev 3:12-- so do his real NT teachers--2Cor 1:3--1Peter 1:3---Rev 1:6--- plus many more spots.
Those who listened to Gods advice---This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM. those who listen,do just that--they learn and apply every teaching from Jesus--Those who do this can clearly see who his real teachers are.
Like this ultra important truth each needs to live by daily
Matt 6:33-- Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness, and all these other things will be added.( sustenance, covering, spirituality)
Like Gods word teaches( most fail to do this)--- go through Jesus to get to the Father--to accomplish this important 24/7 daily activity--John 4:22-24.
YHVH( Jehovah)( Father) is the only true God Jesus taught( John 17:1-6,26)
there is 0 trinity god in existence--those who serve it are not listening to Jesus and are being mislead to break Gods #1 commandment daily.
We say that Jesus was all the sacrifices and that must mean that all the sacrifices were moved to Nisan 14, and so how was Jesus all the sacrifices on Passover and who gives authority to move the sacrifices to one day?
Ezekiel is the one who foretold it.
That the Yom Kippur goat and the rams of Pentecost, and the bull of Sukkot would all be killed on Nisan 14, and not only that, but a messiah would come and fulfill all the days in one day, and that this happens TWICE, that the coming of the Lord was in the spring with all the sacrifices, but at the second coming in the fall, ALL the sacrifices are yet again killed on the same day, only it's not Passover, it happens on the feast of Tabernacles.
Here is the first coming of Jesus AND the second coming, two rains.
Ezekiel 45
{first coming in the spring}
In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering.
And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the Lord, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering.
And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah.
{second coming in the fall}
In the seventh month, in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil.
But notice that the prince is offering sacrifices for himself also.
Just the facts the bible teaches--truth is not taught in the divided house( 33,000 trinity based religions) that will not stand-Mark 3:24-26-- they fail this-1Cor 1:10
There is no Biblical concept of the Trinity. It is a completely human fabrication reasoning out of a complete ignorance about the Source of personhood residing in consciousness (Spirit) . . . nothing more and nothing less.
YHVH(Jehovah) this is the God of the OT--served by Abraham, Issac, Noah, Moses, David, Isaiah, Elijah, Daniel, etc. As well taught to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter--and Jesus. taught and served as a single being God. Served as a single being God to this day.
Jesus attended the places of worship to worship this God--his Father--like this-John 4:22-24
Jesus teaches that the Father is his God--John 20:17, rev 3:12-- so do his real NT teachers--2Cor 1:3--1Peter 1:3---Rev 1:6--- plus many more spots.
Those who listened to Gods advice---This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM. those who listen,do just that--they learn and apply every teaching from Jesus--Those who do this can clearly see who his real teachers are.
Like this ultra important truth each needs to live by daily
Matt 6:33-- Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness, and all these other things will be added.( sustenance, covering, spirituality)
Like Gods word teaches( most fail to do this)--- go through Jesus to get to the Father--to accomplish this important 24/7 daily activity--John 4:22-24.
YHVH( Jehovah)( Father) is the only true God Jesus taught( John 17:1-6,26)
there is 0 trinity god in existence--those who serve it are not listening to Jesus and are being mislead to break Gods #1 commandment daily.
It's really much more complicated than this. The "God of Abraham" was the "God most high" of the Mesopotamian and Canaanite pantheon. This is hardly surprising, since Abraham was himself from the Mesopotamian city of Ur.
Genesis 11:
[31] And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
The "God most high of Abraham was known as EL, El Elyon, or El the Bull.
[i][18]And Melchizedek King of Salem (Jerusalem) brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.
[19]And he blessed him and said; 'blessed be Abram of God Most High.'(Genesis 14:18-19)
"The "God Most High" of Melchizedek was the city deity of Canaanite Jerusalem, Elyon. "The title Elyon is probably not Israelite. Genesis 14 identifies El-elyon with the god worshipped by Melchizedek at Jerusalem, and identifies this deity with the God of the fathers worshipped by Abraham" (Dictionary of the Bible, p.316, by father John L. McKenzie S.J.).
El (deity)
Wikipedia,
?El (or 'Il, written aleph-lamed, e.g. Ugaritic: ????, Phoenician: ????,[1] Hebrew: ???, Syriac: ???, Arabic: ??? or ???, cognate to Akkadian: ilu) is a Northwest Semitic word meaning "god" or "deity", or referring (as a proper name) to any one of multiple major Ancient Near East deities. A rarer spelling, "'ila", represents the predicate form in Old Akkadian and in Amorite.[2] The word is derived from the Proto-Semitic archaic biliteral ?-L, meaning "god".[3]
Specific deities known as El or Il include the supreme god of the Canaanite religion,[4] the supreme god of the Mesopotamian Semites in the pre-Sargonic period,[5] and the God of the Hebrew Bible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)
Wikipedia
Elyon
(Biblical Hebrew; Masoretic ?Elyon; traditionally rendered in Samaritan as illiyyon, is an epithet of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible. ?El ?Elyon is usually rendered in English as "God Most High", and similarly in the Septuagint as "? T??S ? ???S??S" ("God the highest") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyon
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism)
The Judaeo/Christian God is generally refereed to as "the God of Abraham." Abraham is believed to have lived circa 1800-2000 BC, if he existed at all. In Gen.14:18 we find Abraham making common cause with Melchizedek the priest-king of Canaanite Salem (Jerusalem). Abraham and Melchizedek both worshiped "God most high." This was the creator God El Elyon. Elyon was the creator God of Sumerian beliefs, known as El the Bull, and depicted in Mesopotamian art as a bull, carrying the celestial disk of creation between his horns.
Wikipedia
Elyon (Biblical Hebrew ?????; Masoretic ?Elyon; traditionally rendered in Samaritan as illiyyon, is an epithet of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible. ?El ?Elyon is usually rendered in English as "God Most High", and similarly in the Septuagint as "? T??S ? ???S??S" ("God the highest") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyon
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
El had a consort named Asherah.
Wikipedia
Asherah/Astarte was also known as Ishtar to the Babylonians, and was associated with the planet Venus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar
Wikipedia
El
The Eternal One (‘Olam) has made a covenant oath with us,
Asherah has made (a pact) with us.
And all the sons of El,
And the great council of all the Holy Ones.
With oaths of Heaven and Ancient Earth.
In some inscriptions, the name ’El qone ’ar? meaning "'El creator of Earth" appears, even including a late inscription at Leptis Magna in Tripolitania dating to the second century. In Hittite texts, the expression becomes the single name Ilkunirsa, this Ilkunirsa appearing as the husband of Asherdu (Asherah) and father of 77 or 88 sons.
In a Hurrian hymn to 'El (published in Ugaritica V, text RS 24.278), he is called ’il brt and ’il dn which Cross (p. 39) takes as ''El of the covenant' and ''El the judge' respectively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity
Who was the god Baal?
In Judges 8:33 Baal-berith was worshiped by the Israelites after the death of Gideon. In Canaanite belief, Baal was the son of El and the goddess Asherah. Baal became more powerful than even El, defeating various other gods in battles. Baal was often worshiped as a sun god or storm god. Error Page
In an act that would prove to be one of extraordinarily irony, when Moses returned from the mountain with the ten commandments, he found the Israelites in the process of constructing a golden calf to worship, and Moses excoriated them quite viciously for it. What were they doing? ATTEMPTING TO WORSHIP THE SON OF GOD IN THE FORM OF A CALF.
El Elyon was an aloof god; a creator god who was little concerned with the affairs of mankind. By 1000 BC, the time of king David, El Elyon had transformed into YHWH, the very hands on but very jealous and demanding tribal god of Israel. Clearly, the creator El was the chief deity of the fathers of Abraham and was the inspiration for what was to become the family/tribal deity of Abraham himself. But the "El of Abraham" would come to be seen, at least by his descendants, as a distinct entity, different from the El of their Canaanite neighbors, and uniquely their own.
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts.[1]
The Hebrew language phrase ruach ha-kodesh (Hebrew: ??? ?????, "holy spirit" also transliterated rua? ha-qodesh) is used in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) and Jewish writings to refer to the spirit of YHWH (??? ????). It literally means "the spirit of holiness." The Hebrew terms ruac? qodshekha, "thy holy spirit" (????? ?????????), and ruac? qodsho, "his holy spirit" (????? ?????????) also occur. (When a possessive suffix is added the definite article is dropped.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
"The "God Most High " of the Canaanites, EL-Elyon, was the creator deity El the Bull. "The head of epic pantheon is the god El. El had probably declined in relative prominence during the second half of the third and first half of the Second Millennium (judging from the theophorous of Semitic origin on cuneiform tablets ranging in date from the Twenty-Sixth century on). Yet he remained the active head of some local pantheons and his name still appears as the first component of such divine names as El-elyon and El-olam." (Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan, p.120, W.F. Albright).
"Relations with the new Canaanite environment led to complications in Israelite religious concepts. Baal and Ashera did not supersede Yahweh (although not yet so named), but were honored along side of him, or perhaps ranked a bit lower. Yahweh was revered as the Israelite national god; Baal as the ruling local genius." (History of the Jews, p.102, Simon Dubnov)."
A thousand years later this god had transformed yet again into the god of love of the Christians, Jehovah. Muslims call god Allah, and claim him to be the god of Abraham.
Wikipedia
Allah
The word 'Allah' in Arabic calligraphy
Allah (English pronunciation: /'æl?/, /'??l?/ or /?l'l??/;[1][2] Arabic: ????? Allah, IPA: [?al?'l???h] ( listen)) is the Arabic word for God (al ilah, literally "the God"), referring to the God in Abrahamic religions. The word has cognates in other Semitic languages, including Elah in Aramaic, ?El in Canaanite and Elohim in Hebrew.[6][7]
It is now mainly used by Muslims to refer to God in Islam,[8] but has been also used by Arab Christians since pre-Islamic times.[9] It is also often, albeit not exclusively, used by Bábists, Bahá'Ãs, Indonesian and Maltese Christians, and Mizrahi Jews.
Christians and Sikhs in West Malaysia also use and have used the word to refer to God. This has caused political and legal controversies there as the law in West Malaysia prohibits non-Islamic uses of the word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
Whether these gods are the same god, distinctly different gods, or ever existed to begin with depends entirely upon to whom one is speaking.
There is no Biblical concept of the Trinity. It is a completely human fabrication reasoning out of a complete ignorance about the Source of personhood residing in consciousness (Spirit) . . . nothing more and nothing less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Woman is not man, and Christ Jesus is not God.
But it does not mean that they cannot be of: The same Spirit; mind and heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
This is my beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
I already showed you two translations of John 6:70 where it is translated as a definite noun. See post #35 just above.
Plus, I posted a site which contains the content of pp. 255-270 of Wallace's 'Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics' in which he covers anarthrous pre-verbal predicate nominatives involving Colwell's Rule. I will post it again. - http://www.areopage.net/PDF/Wallace.pdf
Actually, a Greek noun can have a qualitative semantic force apart from either an 'indefinite' or a 'definite' force. This is covered in Dr. Wallace's discussion on anarthrous pre-verbal predicate nominatives in the above link.
And no. Just because some Coptic manuscripts read John 1:1c as Indefinite does not mean that they are correct. John 1:1c being Qualitative does not deny the Trinity. It shows that while Jesus is not the Father, He is of the same nature as the Father and therefore God.
The simple fact of the matter is that since the Bible is clear that there is only one true God, and Jesus is clearly shown to be God, not a false god, and not a god by title only, but God in His nature, then He cannot be 'a god' as in another god. He is the second 'Person' of the Trinity.
Thank God for your precious "anarthrous pre-verbal predicate nominatives," "hypostatic unions" and "kenosis," Mike. Without all this absurd jargon you would have nothing to base your belief in the Trinity on. It is the complete ignorance of the concept of consciousness and its definition of personhood that birthed the ridiculous Trinity concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Again you have no clue. It is ALL Coptic MS, not just one and ................ they knew Greek better than anyone alive today.
This is how real scholars work, they examine the language and how it was used, understood according to clear writings and how it was translated when it was a living language. They do not depend on lexicon's or grammar's.
The Coptic is critical for various reasons. Do you know why Coptic is so critical? Do you know how Coptic came about?Do you know how it differs from Greek, Latin, Hebrew????
You are wasting your time with Mike. He is thoroughly indoctrinated into the "precepts and doctrines of men" who are his theological mentors. They have him so bamboozled with jargon he can't see the forest for the trees.
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Peace
