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It's really much more complicated than this. The "God of Abraham" was the "God most high" of the Mesopotamian and Canaanite pantheon. This is hardly surprising, since Abraham was himself from the Mesopotamian city of Ur.
Genesis 11: [31] And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
The "God most high of Abraham was known as EL, El Elyon, or El the Bull.
[i][18]And Melchizedek King of Salem (Jerusalem) brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.
[19]And he blessed him and said; 'blessed be Abram of God Most High.'(Genesis 14:18-19)
"The "God Most High" of Melchizedek was the city deity of Canaanite Jerusalem, Elyon. "The title Elyon is probably not Israelite. Genesis 14 identifies El-elyon with the god worshipped by Melchizedek at Jerusalem, and identifies this deity with the God of the fathers worshipped by Abraham" (Dictionary of the Bible, p.316, by father John L. McKenzie S.J.).
El (deity)
Wikipedia,
?El (or 'Il, written aleph-lamed, e.g. Ugaritic: ????, Phoenician: ????,[1] Hebrew: ???, Syriac: ???, Arabic: ??? or ???, cognate to Akkadian: ilu) is a Northwest Semitic word meaning "god" or "deity", or referring (as a proper name) to any one of multiple major Ancient Near East deities. A rarer spelling, "'ila", represents the predicate form in Old Akkadian and in Amorite.[2] The word is derived from the Proto-Semitic archaic biliteral ?-L, meaning "god".[3]
Specific deities known as El or Il include the supreme god of the Canaanite religion,[4] the supreme god of the Mesopotamian Semites in the pre-Sargonic period,[5] and the God of the Hebrew Bible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)
Wikipedia
Elyon
(Biblical Hebrew; Masoretic ?Elyon; traditionally rendered in Samaritan as illiyyon, is an epithet of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible. ?El ?Elyon is usually rendered in English as "God Most High", and similarly in the Septuagint as "? T??S ? ???S??S" ("God the highest") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyon
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism)
The Judaeo/Christian God is generally refereed to as "the God of Abraham." Abraham is believed to have lived circa 1800-2000 BC, if he existed at all. In Gen.14:18 we find Abraham making common cause with Melchizedek the priest-king of Canaanite Salem (Jerusalem). Abraham and Melchizedek both worshiped "God most high." This was the creator God El Elyon. Elyon was the creator God of Sumerian beliefs, known as El the Bull, and depicted in Mesopotamian art as a bull, carrying the celestial disk of creation between his horns.
Wikipedia
Elyon (Biblical Hebrew ?????; Masoretic ?Elyon; traditionally rendered in Samaritan as illiyyon, is an epithet of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible. ?El ?Elyon is usually rendered in English as "God Most High", and similarly in the Septuagint as "? T??S ? ???S??S" ("God the highest") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyon
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
El had a consort named Asherah.
Wikipedia
Asherah/Astarte was also known as Ishtar to the Babylonians, and was associated with the planet Venus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar
Wikipedia
El
The Eternal One (‘Olam) has made a covenant oath with us,
Asherah has made (a pact) with us.
And all the sons of El,
And the great council of all the Holy Ones.
With oaths of Heaven and Ancient Earth.
In some inscriptions, the name ’El qone ’ar? meaning "'El creator of Earth" appears, even including a late inscription at Leptis Magna in Tripolitania dating to the second century. In Hittite texts, the expression becomes the single name Ilkunirsa, this Ilkunirsa appearing as the husband of Asherdu (Asherah) and father of 77 or 88 sons.
In a Hurrian hymn to 'El (published in Ugaritica V, text RS 24.278), he is called ’il brt and ’il dn which Cross (p. 39) takes as ''El of the covenant' and ''El the judge' respectively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity
Who was the god Baal?
In Judges 8:33 Baal-berith was worshiped by the Israelites after the death of Gideon. In Canaanite belief, Baal was the son of El and the goddess Asherah. Baal became more powerful than even El, defeating various other gods in battles. Baal was often worshiped as a sun god or storm god. Error Page
In an act that would prove to be one of extraordinarily irony, when Moses returned from the mountain with the ten commandments, he found the Israelites in the process of constructing a golden calf to worship, and Moses excoriated them quite viciously for it. What were they doing? ATTEMPTING TO WORSHIP THE SON OF GOD IN THE FORM OF A CALF.
El Elyon was an aloof god; a creator god who was little concerned with the affairs of mankind. By 1000 BC, the time of king David, El Elyon had transformed into YHWH, the very hands on but very jealous and demanding tribal god of Israel. Clearly, the creator El was the chief deity of the fathers of Abraham and was the inspiration for what was to become the family/tribal deity of Abraham himself. But the "El of Abraham" would come to be seen, at least by his descendants, as a distinct entity, different from the El of their Canaanite neighbors, and uniquely their own.
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts.[1]
The Hebrew language phrase ruach ha-kodesh (Hebrew: ??? ?????, "holy spirit" also transliterated rua? ha-qodesh) is used in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) and Jewish writings to refer to the spirit of YHWH (??? ????). It literally means "the spirit of holiness." The Hebrew terms ruac? qodshekha, "thy holy spirit" (????? ?????????), and ruac? qodsho, "his holy spirit" (????? ?????????) also occur. (When a possessive suffix is added the definite article is dropped.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
"The "God Most High " of the Canaanites, EL-Elyon, was the creator deity El the Bull. "The head of epic pantheon is the god El. El had probably declined in relative prominence during the second half of the third and first half of the Second Millennium (judging from the theophorous of Semitic origin on cuneiform tablets ranging in date from the Twenty-Sixth century on). Yet he remained the active head of some local pantheons and his name still appears as the first component of such divine names as El-elyon and El-olam." (Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan, p.120, W.F. Albright).
"Relations with the new Canaanite environment led to complications in Israelite religious concepts. Baal and Ashera did not supersede Yahweh (although not yet so named), but were honored along side of him, or perhaps ranked a bit lower. Yahweh was revered as the Israelite national god; Baal as the ruling local genius." (History of the Jews, p.102, Simon Dubnov)."
A thousand years later this god had transformed yet again into the god of love of the Christians, Jehovah. Muslims call god Allah, and claim him to be the god of Abraham.
Wikipedia
Allah
The word 'Allah' in Arabic calligraphy
Allah (English pronunciation: /'æl?/, /'??l?/ or /?l'l??/;[1][2] Arabic: ????? Allah, IPA: [?al?'l???h] ( listen)) is the Arabic word for God (al ilah, literally "the God"), referring to the God in Abrahamic religions. The word has cognates in other Semitic languages, including Elah in Aramaic, ?El in Canaanite and Elohim in Hebrew.[6][7]
It is now mainly used by Muslims to refer to God in Islam,[8] but has been also used by Arab Christians since pre-Islamic times.[9] It is also often, albeit not exclusively, used by Bábists, Bahá'Ãs, Indonesian and Maltese Christians, and Mizrahi Jews.
Christians and Sikhs in West Malaysia also use and have used the word to refer to God. This has caused political and legal controversies there as the law in West Malaysia prohibits non-Islamic uses of the word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
Whether these gods are the same god, distinctly different gods, or ever existed to begin with depends entirely upon to whom one is speaking.
This is how many times in the last 2000 years that mortal mans words trying to state different from what Jesus taught works= 0
In an act that would prove to be one of extraordinarily irony, when Moses returned from the mountain with the ten commandments, he found the Israelites in the process of constructing a golden calf to worship, and Moses excoriated them quite viciously for it. What were they doing? ATTEMPTING TO WORSHIP THE SON OF GOD IN THE FORM OF A CALF.
El Elyon was an aloof god; a creator god who was little concerned with the affairs of mankind. By 1000 BC, the time of king David, El Elyon had transformed into YHWH, the very hands on but very jealous and demanding tribal god of Israel. Clearly, the creator El was the chief deity of the fathers of Abraham and was the inspiration for what was to become the family/tribal deity of Abraham himself. But the "El of Abraham" would come to be seen, at least by his descendants, as a distinct entity, different from the El of their Canaanite neighbors, and uniquely their own.
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts.[1]
Side note
That Bull they created and worshipped was only worshipped because the invisible God was supposedly standing on it.
What were they doing?
They were committing adultery when Moses was coming down with a marriage contract, and so Moses went back to the mountain and brought the design of a Tabernacle that was made from the human anatomy of a woman and to show a woman as a Tabernacle.
Moses had not come down with a design for an ark of the covenant because they were to be married and then their bodies would have been transformed as the flesh would give birth to a new creature, birthing sons of God.
The Ark of the covenant is what sits behind the Veil of God, and the veil of God is just to show the veil inside a virgin, and behind the veil of a virgin is a uterus. That's what Moses brought down when he put it into their hands,'' Let them try and birth themselves}
But since they had committed adultery, God gave them a different law and instructions how a bride of a God give get pregnant and birth a male son of God. Their instructions were to try once every year and so they tried to get past the veil of a virgin in the temple, and it has no door because it represent a virgin with no entrance.
They were clothed in the seed, the priests trying to get past a veil representing sperm.
This is why there are 24 elders around the throne in 3 divisions as there are 3 divisions of ribs, and a rib is taken to make a wife, ribs represent wives.
So now people are looking at the good law of God as if this was the first law, but it is in fact what was chosen by the people when they had turned away from God to choose another God in committing adultery, they chose the work of their own hands and so God gives it to them and try as they may, the Temple never became pregnant till the side of Jesus was pierced, till a symbolic rib was taken and the water and blood spilled out as a legal witness of a consummation, and just as the veil was rent in two from top to bottom as it is with a young man and a virgin. Jesus having been planted in the Earth and the earth literally became pregnant after she had been barren for so long, she bore her first son.
This is how many times in the last 2000 years that mortal mans words trying to state different from what Jesus taught works= 0
How many of the things that Jesus taught are derived from those things that Jesus himself personally SAID? The answer, =0. Jesus wrote NOTHING. Everything Jesus is reputed to have said, and therefore taught, has been placed into his mouth by anonymous individuals decades after Jesus was supposed to have lived and died. How many people who lived 2,000 years ago are anything other than still dead? The answer, =0. What is Christianity's rate of accuracy in this ongoing proclamation that "The end is near," and Jesus is just about to return at any moment now? That would be zero for 2,000 years. At what point is your statement anything but utterly and completely contradicted when compared to the actual facts? At EVERY point.
Support your contention that invisible god rode the bull.
I came to that conclusion before I ever had a Hebrew bible.
But I remembered the quote in J.P.S.
It is said that the people were not so foolish{obviously} to think a calf brought them out of Egypt but that it a pedestal from which God stands upon invisible, and being that it is a symbol of strength, it is used as a vehicle just like it is said that Ephraim and Judah would push the nations to the end of the world with their horns.
But at no time has Israel imagined that the God of the universe is a bull. But the Messiah was a bull.
Not only a bull, but many other animals.
But still, that Golden calf had the invisible God standing upon it.
I came to that conclusion before I ever had a Hebrew bible.
But I remembered the quote in J.P.S.
It is said that the people were not so foolish{obviously} to think a calf brought them out of Egypt but that it a pedestal from which God stands upon invisible, and being that it is a symbol of strength, it is used as a vehicle just like it is said that Ephraim and Judah would push the nations to the end of the world with their horns.
But at no time has Israel imagined that the God of the universe is a bull. But the Messiah was a bull.
Not only a bull, but many other animals.
But still, that Golden calf had the invisible God standing upon it.
I wonder if those people at the time had any idea that their beliefs would someday fully conform to your declarations of what they should have believed.
I came to that conclusion before I ever had a Hebrew bible.
But I remembered the quote in J.P.S.
It is said that the people were not so foolish{obviously} to think a calf brought them out of Egypt but that it a pedestal from which God stands upon invisible, and being that it is a symbol of strength, it is used as a vehicle just like it is said that Ephraim and Judah would push the nations to the end of the world with their horns.
But at no time has Israel imagined that the God of the universe is a bull. But the Messiah was a bull.
Not only a bull, but many other animals.
But still, that Golden calf had the invisible God standing upon it.
Just wondering. El the Bull was reputed to have sired as many as 88 sons. Were they also little little invisible gods riding little bulls, in your enlightened opinion?
How many of the things that Jesus taught are derived from those things that Jesus himself personally SAID? The answer, =0. Jesus wrote NOTHING. Everything Jesus is reputed to have said, and therefore taught, has been placed into his mouth by anonymous individuals decades after Jesus was supposed to have lived and died. How many people who lived 2,000 years ago are anything other than still dead? The answer, =0. What is Christianity's rate of accuracy in this ongoing proclamation that "The end is near," and Jesus is just about to return at any moment now? That would be zero for 2,000 years. At what point is your statement anything but utterly and completely contradicted when compared to the actual facts? At EVERY point.
The two horned beast of Rev 13 had to be in place for the prophecies to continue till its end---very close now.
God inspired the writers of the bible. God knew every word Jesus spoke.
Jesus sat on his throne at the end of the war in heaven-1914( Rev 6)see he received his crown--Michael took that ride) the first ride of the white horse( righteous war)--- at the 2nd ride of the white horse( Har-mageddon) Jesus is already wearing the crown. He comes with the voice of the archangel---its his voice( 1Thess 4:16)
I came to that conclusion before I ever had a Hebrew bible.
But I remembered the quote in J.P.S.
It is said that the people were not so foolish{obviously} to think a calf brought them out of Egypt but that it a pedestal from which God stands upon invisible, and being that it is a symbol of strength, it is used as a vehicle just like it is said that Ephraim and Judah would push the nations to the end of the world with their horns.
But at no time has Israel imagined that the God of the universe is a bull. But the Messiah was a bull.
Not only a bull, but many other animals.
But still, that Golden calf had the invisible God standing upon it.
God standing on that Bull= Bull--it is not biblical. In fact--when Moses came down and saw the bull--he was Pissed to the core.
The two horned beast of Rev 13 had to be in place for the prophecies to continue till its end---very close now.
God inspired the writers of the bible. God knew every word Jesus spoke.
Jesus sat on his throne at the end of the war in heaven-1914( Rev 6)see he received his crown--Michael took that ride) the first ride of the white horse( righteous war)--- at the 2nd ride of the white horse( Har-mageddon) Jesus is already wearing the crown. He comes with the voice of the archangel---its his voice( 1Thess 4:16)
Earlier you stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47
This is how many times in the last 2000 years that mortal mans words trying to state different from what Jesus taught works= 0
Given a start of 2,000 years, how many of the things you have stated above have actually occurred? =0!
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