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Paul rejected the authority of the Apostles that Jesus appointed, and the Apostles that Jesus appointed rejected Paul. Paul lacked authority to preach, and his own letters make it clear that he did not possess a letter of recommendation from the authorities that Jesus instituted. Jesus did not institute the Twelve Apostles as a means of personal amusement or to fill his idle time; he did so to protect the Church from idle, heretical, or blasphemous doctrines. He did so with the intention of creating an institution that would preserve correct teaching. Paul chose to go outside of this institution, without a letter of recommendation, and without benefiting himself from its teaching or instruction. Not only do Paul's writings lack consistency or reliability, they cannot be considered Christian.
We read and hear it, and we examine what is reported in the light of what we know about His message, realizing that the recorders of the words used are prone to error, but the spirit will always shine through. Of course this applies to what is recorded as coming from Paul as well.
You love interrogating me. I'm not letting you off the hook.
You love interrogating me. I'm not letting you off the hook.
Bullwhoop. You merely want to derail the topic into your favorite hobbyhorse concerning the authority of the Bible and I'm not biting. Demonstrate how your question relates to the op and I'll answer.
Bullwhoop. You merely want to derail the topic into your favorite hobbyhorse concerning the authority of the Bible and I'm not biting. Demonstrate how your question relates to the op and I'll answer.
It's completely related. You said you read. And I am wondering what it is you read. If you read the Bible then we can reference it and what is says about Paul. If it's something else, then we need to see what your reference is on Paul. So again, what do you read?
Ignorant folks who are unable to compare Bible verses between gospels and Pauline letters can simply google "differences between the teaching of Paul and Jesus" to get dozens of contrasts, some subtle and some blatant. Bible worshipers will have a prepared story to make the contrasts appear to not be---if you are sucker enough to believe in their creative writing stories instead of letting scripture speak for itself.
Bible worshipers are primarily followers of Paul. As a good Pharisee he excused early gentile believers from the bondage of Jewish LAW, but then built his own "church" law which looks a lot like Jewish LAW. Please note the proof in this is that bible worshipers cherry pick which parts of OT LAW Paul did away with, and emphasize some of the more robust anti-sin scriptures from which Paul stated we are free.
There is an interesting blog by a gentleman named Danzier. He is an expert on the difference between teaching by Jesus and James with that of Paul. He is an agnostic who found the differences to be compelling. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of posts by people responding both negatively and positively. One does have to sign up (no cost) to get his blogs and responses to posters.
Like so many who are non-Christian, Danzier is able to see the differences in textual content minus the emotional attachment of bible idolotors, and thus doesn't need to conflate gospels and letters, joining them with a fabrication to make them "fit" one another.
So don't swallow the faulty reasoning of bible worshipers, simply google and learn for yourself.
And, no, I'm not going to do the work for bible worshipers who can google for themselves. If they want to learn, and few of them do, then they can google, it is quite interesting to read some of the creative stories devised by those in need of conflating Jesus and Paul to keep the two on the same page.
I am not a Paul "hater," he did write some good things. But as a sinner saved by grace, his writing is in as much need of being viewed through the lens of Jesus Christ's words and living example as is the writing of anyone else.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 06-15-2015 at 12:15 PM..
Paul rejected the authority of the Apostles that Jesus appointed, and the Apostles that Jesus appointed rejected Paul. Paul lacked authority to preach, and his own letters make it clear that he did not possess a letter of recommendation from the authorities that Jesus instituted. Jesus did not institute the Twelve Apostles as a means of personal amusement or to fill his idle time; he did so to protect the Church from idle, heretical, or blasphemous doctrines. He did so with the intention of creating an institution that would preserve correct teaching. Paul chose to go outside of this institution, without a letter of recommendation, and without benefiting himself from its teaching or instruction. Not only do Paul's writings lack consistency or reliability, they cannot be considered Christian.
- Why did the Apostles Reject Paul?
It is NOT a matter of who has some supposed "authority," Richard. It is ALWAYS a matter of who speaks what is consistent and compatible with the Spirit of agape love (who IS God). The Spirit is the only authority and it is the test of authenticity for everything claimed to be part of God's truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans
You love interrogating me. I'm not letting you off the hook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Bullwhoop. You merely want to derail the topic into your favorite hobbyhorse concerning the authority of the Bible and I'm not biting. Demonstrate how your question relates to the op and I'll answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans
It's completely related. You said you read. And I am wondering what it is you read. If you read the Bible then we can reference it and what is says about Paul. If it's something else, then we need to see what your reference is on Paul. So again, what do you read?
Sad. You STILL refuse the authority of the Spirit in favor of your revered book. The Spirit of agape love (who IS God) is the ONLY authority and it is the absolute standard of God's truth. You test the Spirit of nothing. You take the easy unthinking path blindly accepting whatever is "written in ink" in your idol . . . the Bible. You reject the New Covenant under which Christ abides with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in the Spirit of agape love.
I was never taught to worship the bible in Lutheran fundamentalism. Do some fundamentalist groups actually worship the bible? It sounds like a straw man argument to me.
I was never taught to worship the bible in Lutheran fundamentalism. Do some fundamentalist groups actually worship the bible? It sounds like a straw man argument to me.
I believe the better choice of words are GREATLY REVERE...
1.
to regard with respect tinged with awe; venerate:
I was never taught to worship the bible in Lutheran fundamentalism. Do some fundamentalist groups actually worship the bible? It sounds like a straw man argument to me.
More like a tiny bit of hyperbole when one elevates a book to the supreme authority on earth. "Worship" is a flexible term.
It is NOT a matter of who has some supposed "authority," Richard. It is ALWAYS a matter of who speaks what is consistent and compatible with the Spirit of agape love (who IS God). The Spirit is the only authority and it is the test of authenticity for everything claimed to be part of God's truth.
Sad. You STILL refuse the authority of the Spirit in favor of your revered book. The Spirit of agape love (who IS God) is the ONLY authority and it is the absolute standard of God's truth. You test the Spirit of nothing. You take the easy unthinking path blindly accepting whatever is "written in ink" in your idol . . . the Bible. You reject the New Covenant under which Christ abides with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in the Spirit of agape love.
Those are some staggering claims. And you repeat them constantly.
Do you have any extraordinary evidence to back up those extraordinary claims?
This is the problem with religion in society. We've got people going around making extraordinary claims with no supporting evidence, and some of these folks manage to attract legions of gullible followers.
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