Was St. Paul a heretic? (Messiah, beliefs, evolution, sin)
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On the bolded: I don't know. Under the circumstances I'd have to say that it's because you don't want to.
You are absolutely right about that passage on women attributed to Paul, and which not only contradicts Jesus, but things that Paul himself wrote. Given the influence of Neo-Platonist thought on the developing clergy in the early part of the second century, I'm very suspicious of that passage. Good catch.
You can if you want to. Investigation of the claims against Paul are no stranger to me and if they looked to be true, I would be the first to boot him, just as I have booted that quote you mentioned.
You are absolutely right about that passage on women attributed to Paul, and which not only contradicts Jesus, but things that Paul himself wrote. Given the influence of Neo-Platonist thought on the developing clergy in the early part of the second century, I'm very suspicious of that passage. Good catch.
This will continue to pose questions until every verse is TESTED against the Spirit of agape love who IS God. NOTHING that is incompatible with the Spirit of agape love is from God or Jesus . . . no matter who it is attributed to. The authorship of the writings in the Bible is the least reliable aspect. That is WHY the absolute standard of the Spirit of agape love MUST be applied to everything to weed out what is NOT part of God's truth as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Christ.
Because they do not believe in the son of man as He prescribed but believe on their own terms to their own destruction. It was much easier to follow Paul than Jesus because Jesus is hard for sinners to understand.
"No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above."
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
Says a lot about christianity and its willingness (need?)for idols and gods.
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
even when Paul is given credit for getting it right, mere mortals still do not understand and seek to make men greater than they are so they have something to aspire to?
It sounds like both of you are claiming that Christianity was corrupt almost from the get-go. Is that what you both are claiming? If so, that's pretty radical don't you think? Do you really think Christianity has been corrupt for almost all of its 2000 year history? Don't you think the Christians in the 1st and 2nd centuries might have been in a better position to determine what is/is not "genuine" Christianity?
This will continue to pose questions until every verse is TESTED against the Spirit of agape love who IS God. NOTHING that is incompatible with the Spirit of agape love is from God or Jesus . . . no matter who it is attributed to. The authorship of the writings in the Bible is the least reliable aspect. That is WHY the absolute standard of the Spirit of agape love MUST be applied to everything to weed out what is NOT part of God's truth as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Christ.
That's quite a claim. Do you have anything to back up your claim? I'll never understand how some people can claim to be in direct contact with supernatural beings.
This will continue to pose questions until every verse is TESTED against the Spirit of agape love who IS God. NOTHING that is incompatible with the Spirit of agape love is from God or Jesus . . . no matter who it is attributed to. The authorship of the writings in the Bible is the least reliable aspect. That is WHY the absolute standard of the Spirit of agape love MUST be applied to everything to weed out what is NOT part of God's truth as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
That's quite a claim. Do you have anything to back up your claim? I'll never understand how some people can claim to be in direct contact with supernatural beings.
The consciousness I encounter in deep meditation is unconditionally loving and accepting. Jesus revealed that God IS Spirit and that God IS agape love. Jesus said that we should judge the Spirit of anything by its "fruits." Jesus claimed that when we see Him we see His Father . . . God. IOW. . . Jesus revealed the TRUE NATURE of God by His "fruits." Then He provided the most awe-inspiring and unambiguous "fruit" by enduring the ignorance and brutality of our savage ancestors (sins) with love for all, including His torturers and murderers. That is sufficient proof to me that everything MUST be tested against the Spirit of agape love . . . who IS God.
One has to understand Paul and his background as a Pharisee and ruthless bounty hunter of Christians put to death. His persona appears to have been a weening process as at times as he was rough around the edges but not a heritic. He threatened to kill some apostles, was a bit inconsistent in his teachings until he honed his ministry into a remarkable metamorphosis .
The consciousness I encounter in deep meditation is unconditionally loving and accepting. Jesus revealed that God IS Spirit and that God IS agape love. Jesus said that we should judge the Spirit of anything by its "fruits." Jesus claimed that when we see Him we see His Father . . . God. IOW. . . Jesus revealed the TRUE NATURE of God by His "fruits." Then He provided the most awe-inspiring and unambiguous "fruit" by enduring the ignorance and brutality of our savage ancestors (sins) with love for all, including His torturers and murderers. That is sufficient proof to me that everything MUST be tested against the Spirit of agape love . . . who IS God.
That's wacky. If you took LSD would you interpret those experiences as divine revelation? If so, what if you had a "bad trip"? Would you then proclaim to the world, based on your experience, that God is not agape love but rather full of wrath and anger?
I'm literally stunned that anyone would interpret emotional or psychological experiences as direct links to the minds of supernatural beings. Why do people still think this way in a scientific age?
Paul was most definitely a heretic. Jesus sent his followers as He was sent same words and mission though the disciples really never showed they did so. If Jesus said His followers would know the secrets of the kingdom of God and the meaning of God's word then it shows that even if Peter embraced Paul as the apostle to the nations this does not make it so. Paul may have heard someone talking to Him in the desert but it wasn't Jesus.
Paul went on to make up His own Gospel and did not remain in the words of the son of man as Jesus instructed His followers.
Paul established a Gospel that says they are saved by faith but Jesus gospel was a Gospel of works.
I think that you are now the heretic here.
Paulos was a true brother which was reaching to the perfection, and he admit that, he wasn't there yet, but he strive for that, and was willing to give everything, unlike you, or any other here.
There is much what we can learn from his letters also today, and he was a true apostle.
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