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below I will list the scripture from the bible new and old testament, which supports the statement.
Daniel: The vision of the áncient of days´and the son of man
7.9 ´thrones were set in place(for judges, hence for the judgement)
and the one of great age took his seat
(God has no age, God always was and always will be, hence this is the immanuel)
His robe was white as snow,
the hair on his head as pure as wool,
...... Imagery.....
7,10 A thousand times 10 thousand waited on him,
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.(maybe for judgement)
A court was held and books were opened.
7,13 I gazed and saw into the visions of the night,
And I saw coming on the clouds of heaven, (comming from heaven, as Jesus said you would see him)
one like a son of man.
He came to the one of great age
and was lead into his presence. (Ergo the one of Great age is on earth, and on the throne of Israel)
Matthew 25
31 'When the Son of man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory.(as stated in Daniel)
Why? Why would Yeshua be comming for the Judgement? answer
Zac 3.5 The angel of Yahweh then proclaimed to Yeshua:- Yahweh Sabaoth says this, "if you walk in my ways, and keep my ordinances, you shall govern my house, and you shall watch over my courts and I will give you free access amoungst those who stand here"
I suggest that Jesus is Yeshua the annoited High priest, The messiah, who Yaweh will send to judge the people, on the day of Judgement. Part of the High priests duties.
John 16. 15 Everything the Father has is mine;
This relates to Zac 3 "you shall govern my house, and you shall watch over my courts"
To say the annoited high priest of god is given authority over heaven.
The Christians have always tried to say that these remarks with others shouw jesus to be god
I argue that actually they show him to be the annoited high priest.
THE PROPHET:-
JOHN 5.44 How can you believe, since you look to each other for glory and are not concerned with the glory that comes from the one God?
45 Do not imagine that I am going to accuse you before the Father: you have placed your hopes on Moses, and Moses will be the one who accuses you.
46 If you really believed him you would believe me too, since it was about me that he was writing;
47 but if you will not believe what he wrote, how can you believe what I say?
DEUT:- 18
17 Then Yahweh said to me,
18 "What they have said is well said. From their own brothers I shall raise up a prophet like yourself;
19 I shall put my words into his mouth and he will tell them everything I command him. Anyone who refuses to listen to my words, spoken by him in my name, will have to render an account to me.
See Father God is the creator who is the most high God of a multitude of heavenly host and creator of all power of heaven , Son of God Jesus is the messiah of the promise of God to bring a deliverer who will be a judgment of all the heaven and the earth where men and women can be judged and saved to God , so the cross of Christ which Jesus a innocent man born of God was killed by men who were manipulated by the devil with the sin of envy is the judgment God uses to judge all men and women to side against the devil and sin ....Holy Spirit of God is the deliverer of grace of God and comforter for all saved , as these are all one God .......................... Then we have a parallel interpretation of high priest from Hebrew 4, 5 chapters which shows a singular role for Jesus as a priest and a judge , and they use melchizedek which was the priest which Abraham had 2000 BC..., long before Moses and Aaron the Levi priest . and the author of Hebrews book give reference by the order of melchizedek and not the order of Moses and his priest ....,,......................See the reference of Jesus is only a high Priest and not God , then you will miss that Jesus is indeed sovereign and God, and is the only begotten Son of God which means he was created man by God and then Mary was a surrogate Mother for God where Jesus was born in the world .
below I will list the scripture from the bible new and old testament, which supports the statement.
Daniel: The vision of the áncient of days´and the son of man
7.9 ´thrones were set in place(for judges, hence for the judgement)
and the one of great age took his seat
(God has no age, God always was and always will be, hence this is the immanuel)
His robe was white as snow,
the hair on his head as pure as wool,
However, the TaNaKh says this:
Isaiah 7:
9.I was looking until thrones were set up, and the Ancient of Days sat; His raiment was as white as snow, and the hair of His head was like clean wool; His throne was sparks of fire, its wheels were a burning fire.
Quote:
...... Imagery.....
7,10 A thousand times 10 thousand waited on him,
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.(maybe for judgement)
A court was held and books were opened.
7,13 I gazed and saw into the visions of the night,
And I saw coming on the clouds of heaven, (comming from heaven, as Jesus said you would see him)
one like a son of man.
He came to the one of great age
and was lead into his presence. (Ergo the one of Great age is on earth, and on the throne of Israel)
Wait, you just said that Jesus was the one of great age because G-d has no age...Now you say that Jesus came to himself?...
Here, I included the verses that you left out...Just for clarity...
10.A river of fire was flowing and emerging from before Him; a thousand thousands served Him, and ten thousand ten thousands arose before Him. Justice was established, and the books were opened.
11.I saw then from the sound of the arrogant words that the horn spoke, I looked until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to a flame of fire.
12.But as for the other beasts, their dominion was removed, and they were given an extension of life until a set time.
13.I saw in the visions of the night, and behold with the clouds of the heaven, one like a man was coming, and he came up to the Ancient of Days and was brought before Him.
Quote:
Matthew 25
31 'When the Son of man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory.(as stated in Daniel)
Why? Why would Yeshua be comming for the Judgement? answer
Zac 3.5 The angel of Yahweh then proclaimed to Yeshua:- Yahweh Sabaoth says this, "if you walk in my ways, and keep my ordinances, you shall govern my house, and you shall watch over my courts and I will give you free access amoungst those who stand here"
I suggest that Jesus is Yeshua the annoited High priest, The messiah, who Yaweh will send to judge the people, on the day of Judgement. Part of the High priests duties.
No, Zechariah is talking about Joshua...
Quote:
John 16. 15 Everything the Father has is mine;
This relates to Zac 3 "you shall govern my house, and you shall watch over my courts"
To say the annoited high priest of god is given authority over heaven.
The Christians have always tried to say that these remarks with others shouw jesus to be god
I argue that actually they show him to be the annoited high priest.
How 'bout it being just what it says?...G-d making Joshua His Kohen HaGodol (High Priest)?...
6.And the angel of the Lord warned Joshua, saying,
7.So said the Lord of Hosts: If you walk in My ways, and if you keep My charge, you, too, shall judge My house, and you, too, shall guard My courtyards, and I will give you free access among these who stand by.
8.Hearken, now, O Joshua the High Priest-you and your companions who sit before you, for they are men worthy of a miracle-for, behold! I bring My servant, the Shoot.
Quote:
THE PROPHET:-
JOHN 5.44 How can you believe, since you look to each other for glory and are not concerned with the glory that comes from the one God?
45 Do not imagine that I am going to accuse you before the Father: you have placed your hopes on Moses, and Moses will be the one who accuses you.
46 If you really believed him you would believe me too, since it was about me that he was writing;
47 but if you will not believe what he wrote, how can you believe what I say?
Funny thing is that Moses didn't write anything...It was all passed down orally until someone wrote it down...
Quote:
DEUT:- 18
17 Then Yahweh said to me,
18 "What they have said is well said. From their own brothers I shall raise up a prophet like yourself;
19 I shall put my words into his mouth and he will tell them everything I command him. Anyone who refuses to listen to my words, spoken by him in my name, will have to render an account to me.
Here's what the Torah says and I included the verses that you left out for better clarity of what the writer was talking about...
16.According to all that you asked of the Lord, your God, in Horeb, on the day of the assembly, saying, "Let me not continue to hear the voice of the Lord, my God, and let me no longer see this great fire, so that I will not die."
17.And the Lord said to me, "They have done well in what they have spoken.
18.I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.
19.And it will be, that whoever does not hearken to My words that he speaks in My name, I will exact [it] of him.
20.But the prophet who intentionally speaks a word in My name, which I did not command him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
21.Now if you say to yourself, "How will we know the word that the Lord did not speak?"
22.If the prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, and the thing does not occur and does not come about, that is the thing the Lord did not speak. The prophet has spoken it wantonly; you shall not be afraid of him.
This is simply G-d granting them their desire not to hear His voice or see the great fire lest they die, so, G-d says that He will speak to them through prophets and further goes on to explain how to recognize a false prophet...
Oh Richard......my prayer is that God would open your eyes to see the Messiah!
Well, if you could prove that the Seferim Torah are wrong, then maybe...But, dishonest translators that translate it in such a way that it will support the NT writings is just plain wrong...I don't think that you want truth at all, I think you're just plain happy in your little bubble...
In addition...Tell me how many Messiahs were there in the Scriptures...
Perhaps it would be better if Richard continues to follow St. Paul's advice to "test everything" and to "put away childish things."
I just know that one must dig and dig to find the truth of things...It isn't easy with so much garbage out there...A Rabbi once said that if an answer to a question comes too easily, then it is not the correct answer, therefore, you must dig and dig and turn it over again and again and examine it from all angles...And another one said that truth has never been realized without argumentation...
As for Paul...I take issue with a lot of what he said...But, that's me picking things apart and analyzing the pieces...
It's the glory of God to conceal a thing, and the honor of kings to search it out.
I will concur - if we look at some staples of contemporary Christianity and compare them with their original Greek translations, it would change everything.
Examples:
Repent - we think it means..well, you know.
Greek: metanoeó - to change one's mind.That's why God could repent several times in the OT
It's the glory of God to conceal a thing, and the honor of kings to search it out.
I will concur - if we look at some staples of contemporary Christianity and compare them with their original Greek translations, it would change everything.
Examples:
Repent - we think it means..well, you know.
Greek: metanoeó - to change one's mind.That's why God could repent several times in the OT
9.I was looking until thrones were set up, and the Ancient of Days sat; His raiment was as white as snow, and the hair of His head was like clean wool; His throne was sparks of fire, its wheels were a burning fire.
Wait, you just said that Jesus was the one of great age because G-d has no age...Now you say that Jesus came to himself?...
No I am saying that the one of great age is the immanuel the Messiah and Jesus is as the annoited high priest comming on a cloud for the judgement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
Here, I included the verses that you left out...Just for clarity...
10.A river of fire was flowing and emerging from before Him; a thousand thousands served Him, and ten thousand ten thousands arose before Him. Justice was established, and the books were opened.
11.I saw then from the sound of the arrogant words that the horn spoke, I looked until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to a flame of fire.
12.But as for the other beasts, their dominion was removed, and they were given an extension of life until a set time.
13.I saw in the visions of the night, and behold with the clouds of the heaven, one like a man was coming, and he came up to the Ancient of Days and was brought before Him.
No, Zechariah is talking about Joshua...
Very nice, but Yeshua Jesus and Joshua are all the same name. It is merely different ways to write it, in the hebrew it is written Yeshua, when translated into another language often the Ye is replace with Jo- both of which represent God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
How 'bout it being just what it says?...G-d making Joshua His Kohen HaGodol (High Priest)?...
Yes his annoited high priest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
6.And the angel of the Lord warned Joshua, saying,
7.So said the Lord of Hosts: If you walk in My ways, and if you keep My charge, you, too, shall judge My house, and you, too, shall guard My courtyards, and I will give you free access among these who stand by.
8.Hearken, now, O Joshua the High Priest-you and your companions who sit before you, for they are men worthy of a miracle-for, behold! I bring My servant, the Shoot.
I think your translation is a little off here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
Funny thing is that Moses didn't write anything...It was all passed down orally until someone wrote it down...
It was written when Jesus was here, written by Moses or not, the point is that it came from Moses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
Here's what the Torah says and I included the verses that you left out for better clarity of what the writer was talking about...
16.According to all that you asked of the Lord, your God, in Horeb, on the day of the assembly, saying, "Let me not continue to hear the voice of the Lord, my God, and let me no longer see this great fire, so that I will not die."
17.And the Lord said to me, "They have done well in what they have spoken.
18.I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.
19.And it will be, that whoever does not hearken to My words that he speaks in My name, I will exact [it] of him.
20.But the prophet who intentionally speaks a word in My name, which I did not command him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
21.Now if you say to yourself, "How will we know the word that the Lord did not speak?"
22.If the prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, and the thing does not occur and does not come about, that is the thing the Lord did not speak. The prophet has spoken it wantonly; you shall not be afraid of him.
Fine and yet:-
Jesus´prophecies that came true:-
Matthew 24.
1 Jesus left the Temple, and as he was going away his disciples came up to draw his attention to the Temple buildings. 2 He said to them in reply, 'You see all these? In Truth I tell you, not a single stone here will be left on another: everything will be pulled down.'
Here!
Mark 13.6
Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘Iamhe,’ and will deceive many.
Both have come true ergo....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
This is simply G-d granting them their desire not to hear His voice or see the great fire lest they die, so, G-d says that He will speak to them through prophets and further goes on to explain how to recognize a false prophet...
Yes but it´s a Prophet like Moses said to come
18.I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, (moses)
Moses Miracle worker parts the sea, sends the plagues,
Jesus´heals many, turns water into wine and so on
Moses, Man of the law gave the jews the scripture
Jesus says he is there to fulfil the scripture
Moses a redeemer sets the Jews free from the house of slavery
Jesus says "if the son sets you free, you are free indeed.
They match Jesus was a man like Moses
Deut 18 .... and I will put My words into his mouth,
John 14 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I say to you I do not speak of my own accord: it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his works.
Last edited by Yeliver; 09-19-2015 at 04:11 PM..
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