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Isn't Identification more accurate than Substitution?
Isn’t the “and dying (spiritually), you shall die (physically)” sentence passed in the garden satisfied by each one of us? I mean, we are all dead in sin before accepting Christ, and we all die at the moment our spirits return to God at the end of our earthly life – sentence passed! …But rather, Christ’s death and resurrection does bring us the aonian life, that we cannot purchase for ourselves, this side of the gravd. So, what Christ did seems to have more to do with at-onement or reconcilation, rather than ‘paying a price’ - if He truly paid a price, then it seems it gets paid twice to me, which would be a little odd.
The first death is our physical death. The second death is our spiritual death if we have not already identified with Christ and received His life.
Spiritually identifying with Christ's death and resurrection is our spiritual death and life.
Isn't Identification more accurate than Substitution?
Isn’t the “and dying (spiritually), you shall die (physically)” sentence passed in the garden satisfied by each one of us? I mean, we are all dead in sin before accepting Christ, and we all die at the moment our spirits return to God at the end of our earthly life – sentence passed! …But rather, Christ’s death and resurrection does bring us the aonian life, that we cannot purchase for ourselves, this side of the gravd. So, what Christ did seems to have more to do with at-onement or reconcilation, rather than ‘paying a price’ - if He truly paid a price, then it seems it gets paid twice to me, which would be a little odd.
The first death is our physical death. The second death is our spiritual death if we have not already identified with Christ and received His life.
Spiritually identifying with Christ's death and resurrection is our spiritual death and life.
Christ's work on the cross entails a number of aspects such as redemption, unlimited atonement, expiation, regeneration, imputation, justification, and propitiation.
Jesus died for everyone. He tasted death for us all. That's unlimited atonement(2 Cor. 5:14-15; 1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10; Tit. 2:11;Heb. 2:9: 1 John 2:2).
He redeemed us. He did so by paying a purchase price. That's what redemption means. The purchase price was His blood which is a synonym for His spiritual death on the cross. Redemption is referred to in Gal. 3:13; Eph. 1:7; 1 Pet. 1:18-19; Rev. 4:9
Expiation (refers to atonement, making amends or reparations for a wrong) (Eph. 2:15-16; Col. 2:14).
Propitiation: Jesus' death on the cross satisfied the righteous demands of the Father (Rom. 3:22-26; 1 John 2:2, 4:10).
Imputation. Our sins were imputed to Jesus as He hung on the cross (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:24).
Justification: Jesus' work on the cross was for our justification. Anyone who believes on Jesus is imputed with Jesus' own perfect righteousness (Romans 4:1-5,25; 5:1,9, 8:30; Gal. 2:16, 3:11; Tit. 3:7).
Regeneration (being born-again): Because of what Jesus did on the cross in our behalf, anyone who simply believes on Him is born-again or regenerated (Tit. 3:5; 1 Pet. 1:23) and has eternal life.
The work of Christ on the cross makes our reconciliation with God possible (2 Cor. 5:18; Eph. 2:16; Col. 1:20-22). Reconciliation and peace are synonymous terms. Reconciliation is the removal of the barrier between man and God. The barrier consists of sin, the penalty for sin, the problem of man's physical birth, man's relative righteousness, God perfect righteousness, and man's position in Adam.
Jesus bearing our sins in His body, tasting death (dying) for us, speaks of substitution. Redemption speaks of Jesus paying a price.
As for spiritual death, we are all born spiritually dead. In Eph. 2:1 Paul is addressing believers and stating that they had at one point been dead. They were physically alive, yet they had been dead. That is a reference to spiritual death - separation from God in which they had not been in a saving relationship with God. Anyone who dies physically without having received Jesus as Savior will remain spiritually dead forever. He will be sentenced to the lake of fire which is the second death. The second death therefore is spiritual death perpetuated forever (Matt. 25:41-46; 2 Thess. 1:8-9; Rev. 20:11-15).
Isn't Identification more accurate than Substitution?
Isn’t the “and dying (spiritually), you shall die (physically)” sentence passed in the garden satisfied by each one of us? I mean, we are all dead in sin before accepting Christ, and we all die at the moment our spirits return to God at the end of our earthly life – sentence passed! …But rather, Christ’s death and resurrection does bring us the aonian life, that we cannot purchase for ourselves, this side of the gravd. So, what Christ did seems to have more to do with at-onement or reconcilation, rather than ‘paying a price’ - if He truly paid a price, then it seems it gets paid twice to me, which would be a little odd.
The first death is our physical death. The second death is our spiritual death if we have not already identified with Christ and received His life.
Spiritually identifying with Christ's death and resurrection is our spiritual death and life.
I like to think of it as "inclusion" and not "substitution."
Also, what Adam did by his one act affected all mankind (see Romans 5:12,18,19) and even as that is the case, thus also Christ's one act will affect all mankind as well (see Romans 5:18,19).
Isn't Identification more accurate than Substitution?
Isn’t the “and dying (spiritually), you shall die (physically)” sentence passed in the garden satisfied by each one of us? I mean, we are all dead in sin before accepting Christ, and we all die at the moment our spirits return to God at the end of our earthly life – sentence passed! …But rather, Christ’s death and resurrection does bring us the aonian life, that we cannot purchase for ourselves, this side of the gravd. So, what Christ did seems to have more to do with at-onement or reconcilation, rather than ‘paying a price’ - if He truly paid a price, then it seems it gets paid twice to me, which would be a little odd.
The first death is our physical death. The second death is our spiritual death if we have not already identified with Christ and received His life.
Spiritually identifying with Christ's death and resurrection is our spiritual death and life.
It's called the Substitutionary Atonement. Jesus atoned for our sins by dying in our place. Either he gets punished for those sins, or we do. By placing our faith in him our sinful nature is exchanged for his righteousness -- and we go from being in Adam to Christ -- who is described as the 2nd Adam.
It's called the Substitutionary Atonement. Jesus atoned for our sins by dying in our place. Either he gets punished for those sins, or we do. By placing our faith in him our sinful nature is exchanged for his righteousness -- and we go from being in Adam to Christ -- who is described as the 2nd Adam.
Nice and tidy. No mess.
What a swell guy that Jesus was.
His Sire now, that's a different kettle of psychosis.
It's called the Substitutionary Atonement. Jesus atoned for our sins by dying in our place. Either he gets punished for those sins, or we do. By placing our faith in him our sinful nature is exchanged for his righteousness -- and we go from being in Adam to Christ -- who is described as the 2nd Adam.
Not sure if you have kids, but do you punish them for their mistakes or show them the way by example so they know how not to make the same mistake, after all who intentionally loves making the mistakes over and over again?. For that is what Jesus meant when he said I am the way...... He is the way out of missing the mark, not the way out of punishment, judgement, damnation and eternal hell.
Christ's work on the cross entails a number of aspects such as redemption, unlimited atonement, expiation, regeneration, imputation, justification, and propitiation.
Jesus died for everyone. He tasted death for us all. That's unlimited atonement(2 Cor. 5:14-15; 1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10; Tit. 2:11;Heb. 2:9: 1 John 2:2).
He redeemed us. He did so by paying a purchase price. That's what redemption means. The purchase price was His blood which is a synonym for His spiritual death on the cross. Redemption is referred to in Gal. 3:13; Eph. 1:7; 1 Pet. 1:18-19; Rev. 4:9
Expiation (refers to atonement, making amends or reparations for a wrong) (Eph. 2:15-16; Col. 2:14).
Propitiation: Jesus' death on the cross satisfied the righteous demands of the Father (Rom. 3:22-26; 1 John 2:2, 4:10).
Imputation. Our sins were imputed to Jesus as He hung on the cross (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:24).
Justification: Jesus' work on the cross was for our justification. Anyone who believes on Jesus is imputed with Jesus' own perfect righteousness (Romans 4:1-5,25; 5:1,9, 8:30; Gal. 2:16, 3:11; Tit. 3:7).
Regeneration (being born-again): Because of what Jesus did on the cross in our behalf, anyone who simply believes on Him is born-again or regenerated (Tit. 3:5; 1 Pet. 1:23) and has eternal life.
The work of Christ on the cross makes our reconciliation with God possible (2 Cor. 5:18; Eph. 2:16; Col. 1:20-22). Reconciliation and peace are synonymous terms. Reconciliation is the removal of the barrier between man and God. The barrier consists of sin, the penalty for sin, the problem of man's physical birth, man's relative righteousness, God perfect righteousness, and man's position in Adam.
Jesus bearing our sins in His body, tasting death (dying) for us, speaks of substitution. Redemption speaks of Jesus paying a price.
As for spiritual death, we are all born spiritually dead. In Eph. 2:1 Paul is addressing believers and stating that they had at one point been dead. They were physically alive, yet they had been dead. That is a reference to spiritual death - separation from God in which they had not been in a saving relationship with God. Anyone who dies physically without having received Jesus as Savior will remain spiritually dead forever. He will be sentenced to the lake of fire which is the second death. The second death therefore is spiritual death perpetuated forever (Matt. 25:41-46; 2 Thess. 1:8-9; Rev. 20:11-15).
My question for people looking for a religion to get into is this: would you want to join a religion that requires a PhD in theology to understand to make sure your salvation is in place?
Look at the list of things you have to comprehend just to function within it:
1. Atonement. Is it "ransom" atonement, "penal substitution" atonement, "satisfaction" atonement or "demystified" atonement. You've got four---count 'em---FOUR atonements to choose from. Make the right choice. Your salvation just might depend on it---or not. Who knows?
2. Expiation
3. Propitiation
4. Imputation
5. Justification
6. Regeneration
7. Reconciliation
Mike is a great theologian. He's spent years and years digesting this stuff before coming to understand it. Do you good folks out there have the time, capacity and patience to read about all this and understand it? How did simple salvation get so complicated to understand? Why did it get so complicated to understand?
Simple answer: the churchmen needed it to be complicated so they could dictate to simple-minded believers what they needed to get into heaven. It's a relatively straightforward form of mind control to give the religious leaders great power over their flocks. And a means of squeezing $$$$$'s out of them.
You following Christ now? You stated in the past that you were not a Christian.
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