Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You following Christ now? You stated in the past that you were not a Christian.
My identity is not Christian, correct. Scripture does not say you have to call yourself a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ, that is absolutely clear from my posts, I do not believe in the Christian gospel as we know it, believe in Jesus for your sins and be saved from eternal hell.
My identity is not Christian, correct. Scripture does not say you have to call yourself a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ, that is absolutely clear from my post, I do not believe in the Christian gospel as we know it, believe in Jesus for your sins and be saved from eternal hell.
OK - I will save that for another day. Just curious... I don't want to hijack the thread.
My question for people looking for a religion to get into is this: would you want to join a religion that requires a PhD in theology to understand to make sure your salvation is in place?
Look at the list of things you have to comprehend just to function within it:
1. Atonement. Is it "ransom" atonement, "penal substitution" atonement, "satisfaction" atonement or "demystified" atonement. You've got four---count 'em---FOUR atonements to choose from. Make the right choice. Your salvation just might depend on it---or not. Who knows?
2. Expiation
3. Propitiation
4. Imputation
5. Justification
6. Regeneration
7. Reconciliation
Mike is a great theologian. He's spent years and years digesting this stuff before coming to understand it. Do you good folks out there have the time, capacity and patience to read about all this and understand it? How did simple salvation get so complicated to understand? Why did it get so complicated to understand?
Simple answer: the churchmen needed it to be complicated so they could dictate to simple-minded believers what they needed to get into heaven. It's a relatively straightforward form of mind control to give the religious leaders great power over their flocks. And a means of squeezing $$$$$'s out of them.
Great religion.
All you have to understand in order to be eternally saved is that Jesus died for your sins and rose again, and therefore trust in Him for eternal life. I simply gave a listing of what His work on the cross involved. In the course of a believer's spiritual growth he should desire to learn those things however.
Jesus provided the Holy Spirit so that the born of the spirit believer may receive the Holy Spirit, and be taught of God, thus being under Jesus Lordship, and obey God personally. Just as Jesus demonstrated with His life.
Though one may use the power of Jesus name to perform miracles, this does not certify Gods approval, Matthew 7;21,22,23,
Obedience to God via the Holy Spirit is the litmus test of God's approval .
Believing is not just a mental affirmation, but a living relationship of interaction and choosing God's influence.
It's called the Substitutionary Atonement. Jesus atoned for our sins by dying in our place. Either he gets punished for those sins, or we do. By placing our faith in him our sinful nature is exchanged for his righteousness -- and we go from being in Adam to Christ -- who is described as the 2nd Adam.
Hi Vizio,
Just a courteous question:
Did you have to believe in Adam to be in Adam?
My question for people looking for a religion to get into is this: would you want to join a religion that requires a PhD in theology to understand to make sure your salvation is in place?
Look at the list of things you have to comprehend just to function within it:
1. Atonement. Is it "ransom" atonement, "penal substitution" atonement, "satisfaction" atonement or "demystified" atonement. You've got four---count 'em---FOUR atonements to choose from. Make the right choice. Your salvation just might depend on it---or not. Who knows?
2. Expiation
3. Propitiation
4. Imputation
5. Justification
6. Regeneration
7. Reconciliation
Mike is a great theologian. He's spent years and years digesting this stuff before coming to understand it. Do you good folks out there have the time, capacity and patience to read about all this and understand it? How did simple salvation get so complicated to understand? Why did it get so complicated to understand?
Simple answer: the churchmen needed it to be complicated so they could dictate to simple-minded believers what they needed to get into heaven. It's a relatively straightforward form of mind control to give the religious leaders great power over their flocks. And a means of squeezing $$$$$'s out of them.
Great religion.
I fully agree with thrillobyte.
God doesn't require of us to understand all the theological mumbo jumbo of the ins and outs of what took place when Christ died. He just simply wants us to believe Him that Christ died for our sins, was entombed and roused the third day.
Just look at Romans 4 and Paul's use of Abraham as a prime example of faith and being declared righteous. All Abraham did was believe God. And then Paul says, this was not written because of him only but because of those who are about to be believing Him.
Notice it doesn't say one has to clean oneself up prior to believing God. God doesn't require us to go to church, get baptized, repent, go to vespers and all that B.S. He just wants us to believe Him. And even belief is not some sort or **requirement**. It just is what it is.
Sure, I understand that stuff *now* but it surely was not a requirement to learn it.
I fully agree with thrillobyte.
God doesn't require of us to understand all the theological mumbo jumbo of the ins and outs of what took place when Christ died. He just simply wants us to believe Him that Christ died for our sins, was entombed and roused the third day.
Just look at Romans 4 and Paul's use of Abraham as a prime example of faith and being declared righteous. All Abraham did was believe God. And then Paul says, this was not written because of him only but because of those who are about to be believing Him.
Notice it doesn't say one has to clean oneself up prior to believing God. God doesn't require us to go to church, get baptized, repent, go to vespers and all that B.S. He just wants us to believe Him. And even belief is not some sort or **requirement**. It just is what it is.
Sure, I understand that stuff *now* but it surely was not a requirement to learn it.
I fully agree with thrillobyte.
God doesn't require of us to understand all the theological mumbo jumbo of the ins and outs of what took place when Christ died. He just simply wants us to believe Him that Christ died for our sins, was entombed and roused the third day.
Just look at Romans 4 and Paul's use of Abraham as a prime example of faith and being declared righteous. All Abraham did was believe God. And then Paul says, this was not written because of him only but because of those who are about to be believing Him.
Notice it doesn't say one has to clean oneself up prior to believing God. God doesn't require us to go to church, get baptized, repent, go to vespers and all that B.S. He just wants us to believe Him. And even belief is not some sort or **requirement**. It just is what it is.
Sure, I understand that stuff *now* but it surely was not a requirement to learn it.
If you read my reply to him (post #13), then you know that I told him that you don't have to know those details that I mentioned in order to be saved.
It's called the Substitutionary Atonement. Jesus atoned for our sins by dying in our place. Either he gets punished for those sins, or we do. By placing our faith in him our sinful nature is exchanged for his righteousness -- and we go from being in Adam to Christ -- who is described as the 2nd Adam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Not sure if you have kids, but do you punish them for their mistakes or show them the way by example so they know how not to make the same mistake, after all who intentionally loves making the mistakes over and over again?. For that is what Jesus meant when he said I am the way...... He is the way out of missing the mark, not the way out of punishment, judgement, damnation and eternal hell.
Our identification is Christ. As he is so are we.
Not only does Vizio's theology not recognize the possibility of anything but punishment for teaching purposes, but it visualizes that punishment as an end in itself. How barbaric can you get?
Vizio, what if Law and Sin were invalidated as bases for judgement or punishment?
That is not the point Paul brought up in using Abraham as an example of believing God.
All Abraham did was believe God that he would be the father of many nations **in spite of him not being able to father children and in spirit of Sarah not being able to have children.** He still believed God and God accounted it to him for righteousness.
Likewise we just take God at His word. All we do is believe Him when He tells us Christ died for our sins, was entombed and roused the third day. He declares us righteous just believing Him.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
