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These all-or-nothing conclusions are just tiresome. It isn't either/or, few things in life are.
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Originally Posted by Aristotle's Child
Scipture is one of them!
No it is not. The Bible itself warns of lying Scribes and false teachers. The entire human experience is one of fallible and flawed behavior and thinking. Pretending that had no effect on the composition and contents of the Bible is just preposterous.
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Originally Posted by Aristotle's Child
RESPONSE:
Scripture is one of those few things. Scripture, if really "God breathed" (divinely inspired), would be inerrant. If it isn't, then the writing isn't divinely inspired unless you are willing to disclaim perfection in God. Are you?
Absolutely. It is NOT a question of God's ability to protect the Bible. It is a question of whether or not there is the remotest evidence that He DID. Not only is there none, but there is ample evidence that He did NOT.
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Originally Posted by pcamps
You are still missing the point of scripture. They do not testify of themselves to know them, they testify to know Christ and ourselves. Why is this so hard to understand.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
And this is where you go so far off base: "inspired" in no way means "dictated,' but more like urges or even so far as impels. Such a definition of "inspire" is entirely the product of a wish for a more concrete authority than that given and a failure of faith in what Jesus promised. This is understandable only when there is no experience and understanding of the promised Spirit.
Thank you my friends. I fear it is a lost cause trying to penetrate the Fundashield that protects the Bible idolators.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 02-14-2016 at 11:42 PM..
It could be that, since God is love, that His vengeance is with a view to loving correction.
That I'm conservative maybe?
Well of course the Bible was written by men putting pen to paper. But it is God-breathed.
I didn't know we were talking about keeping Scripture perfect. I thought the topic is concerning the Bible being inspired.
Are you stating that God was murderous in King David's day, but CHANGED His view in the NT?
Why should "conservative" always appear unlearned?
God breathed doesn't mean, "David, write this down." It is certainly reasonable to think God inspires people equally today as He did 2000+ years ago. And since only in the minds of fundamentalists can God inspire people using only a portion of His holiness, the Bible is no more "God-breathed" than the latest inspiring sermon you heard---or uplifting hymn.
And we know inspired people today sometimes get things wrong. If God speaks or spoke to anyone, as humans they are likely to hear it the way they wish to, or add their own prejudices into the "dictation" they were taking. Challenging the Bible is not challenging God. It is challenging our own perceptions and preconditioning. David, no doubt WAS angry, and he wanted his vengeful thoughts to come from God. Probably even prayed it would be so. But that doesn't mean God dictated something contrary to His nature.
Then the Bible in not inerrant nor authored by God
MysticPhD posted in a reply:
>>(No it is not). The Bible itself warns of lying Scribes and false teachers. The entire human experience is one of fallible and flawed behavior and thinking. Pretending that had no effect on the composition and contents of the Bible is just preposterous.
RESPONSE:
Thus it follow that the Bible is not divinely inspired. If one maintains that the Bible contains some errors, one would have to accept that God was responsible for these errors.
More logically, the Bible is the writing of men, not God.
The issue was clearly summarized in"PROVIDENTISSIMUS DEUS, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE STUDY OF HOLY SCRIPTURE Given at St. Peter's, at Rome, the 18th day of November, 1893.
Inspiration Incompatible with Error.
For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true. ….And the Church holds them as sacred and canonical, not because, having been composed by human industry, they were afterwards approved by her authority; nor only because they contain revelation without error; but because, having been written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they have God for their author." ….Hence, because the Holy Ghost employed men as His instruments, we cannot therefore say that it was these inspired instruments who, perchance, have fallen into error, and not the primary author. For, by supernatural power, He so moved and impelled them to write-He was so present to them-that the things which He ordered, and those only, they, first, rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth. Otherwise, it could not be said that He was the Author of the entire Scripture.
Thus if it be recognized that scripture contains error, God himself is responsible for that error. If this is impossible, then scriptue is man made.
Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 02-15-2016 at 09:25 AM..
Reason: typo
No it is not. The Bible itself warns of lying Scribes and false teachers. The entire human experience is one of fallible and flawed behavior and thinking. Pretending that had no effect on the composition and contents of the Bible is just preposterous.
Absolutely. It is NOT a question of God's ability to protect the Bible. It is a question of whether or not there is the remotest evidence that He DID. Not only is there none, but there is ample evidence that He did NOT.
Thank you my friends. I fear it is a lost cause trying to penetrate the Fundashield that protects the Bible idolators.
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Originally Posted by Aristotle's Child
MysticPhD posted in a reply:
>>(No it is not). The Bible itself warns of lying Scribes and false teachers. The entire human experience is one of fallible and flawed behavior and thinking. Pretending that had no effect on the composition and contents of the Bible is just preposterous. RESPONSE:
Thus it follow that the Bible is not divinely inspired. If one maintains that the Bible contains some errors, one would have to accept that God was responsible for these errors.
Repeating the ridiculous all-or-nothing argument will not make it true. God is responsible for what God WILLS. WE are responsible for what WE DO on earth because we have Dominion by God's Sovereign WILL. Inspiration is God's attempt to communicate with us, but WE interpret that inspiration with our human intellect, beliefs and superstitions about God. In our hubris, we have attributed to God everything that we THINK God MUST be to qualify as our God. But God does not have to meet our standards.
Are you stating that God was murderous in King David's day, but CHANGED His view in the NT?
No, God never murdered anyone, ever.
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Why should "conservative" always appear unlearned?
I didn't know it ever did.
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God breathed doesn't mean, "David, write this down." It is certainly reasonable to think God inspires people equally today as He did 2000+ years ago. And since only in the minds of fundamentalists can God inspire people using only a portion of His holiness, the Bible is no more "God-breathed" than the latest inspiring sermon you heard---or uplifting hymn.
God breathed means that as God breathed, the words came out of Him to the person doing the writing.
I didn't know fundamentalists inspire people using only a portion of His holiness (whatever you mean by that).
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And we know inspired people today sometimes get things wrong.
That is because what people today write is not God breathed.
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If God speaks or spoke to anyone, as humans they are likely to hear it the way they wish to, or add their own prejudices into the "dictation" they were taking. Challenging the Bible is not challenging God. It is challenging our own perceptions and preconditioning. David, no doubt WAS angry, and he wanted his vengeful thoughts to come from God. Probably even prayed it would be so. But that doesn't mean God dictated something contrary to His nature.
David was inspired to write what he wrote. God declares the end from the beginning and calls what is not as if it was.
Thank you my friends. I fear it is a lost cause trying to penetrate the Fundashield that protects the Bible idolators.
I imagine Mystic, like the Popes of old, would love to make it so we can't even read our Bibles so that the only way we can know anything about God or Christ is through priestcraft.
So, Jesus, as reported in the Bible, promised us the Spirit as a guide to be with us always; do you trust what the Lord promised?
Yes.
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Then the Bible in not inerrant nor authored by God
