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I am astounded that you and so many others do NOT think it is barbaric. In what way could the slaughter of innocents EVER appease a God who Jesus tells us IS agape love??? For what reason would it EVER be seen as a necessary practice to be forgiven by a God who IS love??? What insane logic is there in slaughtering an innocent animal (or human being) to appease a God who IS love??? In what sane universe would this EVER NOT be barbaric???
I'll be honest... I would not take to it because I wasn't exposed to it. Some people are exposed to it and it's not a big deal. What's barbaric to you may not be barbaric to someone else. And apparently to God, He doesn't have a problem with it.
Romans 6:23a - For the wages of sin is death
That's God's value system. Death is required to pay for sin.
You are not the only one to have a problem with God and His ways...
John 6:53-61
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever." 59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, "This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble?
How did the people who claimed to believe, but really did not, respond?
John 6:66 - As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
How did true believers respond?
John 6:67-69 - So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" 68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69 "We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God."
People who have faith in God and Jesus Christ understand that His ways may not be our ways - yet we trust in Him. This has been my whole point in this thread. It is about faith in God and Jesus Christ.
I'll be honest... I would not take to it because I wasn't exposed to it. Some people are exposed to it and it's not a big deal. What's barbaric to you may not be barbaric to someone else. And apparently to God, He doesn't have a problem with it.
Romans 6:23a - For the wages of sin is death
That's God's value system. Death is required to pay for sin.
You are not the only one to have a problem with God and His ways...
John 6:53-61
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever." 59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, "This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble?
How did the people who claimed to believe, but really did not, respond?
John 6:66 - As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
How did true believers respond?
John 6:67-69 - So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" 68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69 "We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God."
People who have faith in God and Jesus Christ understand that His ways may not be our ways - yet we trust in Him. This has been my whole point in this thread. It is about faith in God and Jesus Christ.
A good exposition, DRob4JC, but there are two things you should consider: "the wages of sin" are not a punishment meted out by an angry God, but the consequences of selfish, thoughtless actions that are bad for the person in the long run, and Jesus spoke in a metaphor that was shocking to his audience, quite possibly expecting a lot to reject the surface meaning without giving thought to the spiritual or metaphoric meaning. Agreed that the disciples who stayed didn't understand either, but He was not actually requiring a barbaric practice. Let's hope that our requirements are understand able and not barbaric whether God's ways are hidden at times or not.
Why not? If you are in the path of a train should anyone who sees it not warn you? Have I not heard that before? What if a wake-up call is needed?
If the train is agape love, why would you need to warn anyone?
As for me, I already heard the call, and answered it. I am on the palm of God's hand, and I am staying despite of all your efforts to tell its a bad place to be.
I'll be honest... I would not take to it because I wasn't exposed to it. Some people are exposed to it and it's not a big deal. What's barbaric to you may not be barbaric to someone else. And apparently to God, He doesn't have a problem with it.
Romans 6:23a - For the wages of sin is death
That's God's value system. Death is required to pay for sin.
You are not the only one to have a problem with God and His ways...
John 6:53-61
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever." 59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, "This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble?
How did the people who claimed to believe, but really did not, respond?
John 6:66 - As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
How did true believers respond?
John 6:67-69 - So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" 68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69 "We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God."
People who have faith in God and Jesus Christ understand that His ways may not be our ways - yet we trust in Him. This has been my whole point in this thread. It is about faith in God and Jesus Christ.
Amen !
Your last paragraph is so true, amen !
"yet we trust in Him," "It is about faith in God and Jesus Christ " Amen, and because of that faith we know it will always be better to be hated for telling the truth then loved for telling a lie.
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Col. 2:8
And that is exactly what is being presented, "human tradition and basic principles of this world rather than on Christ," amen !
Putting our trust in God and depending on his intrinsic goodness frees us from the need to find explanations for everything. (Retief, Frank)
"yet we trust in Him," "It is about faith in God and Jesus Christ " Amen, and because of that faith we know it will always be better to be hated for telling the truth then loved for telling a lie.
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Col. 2:8
And that is exactly what is being presented, "human tradition and basic principles of this world rather than on Christ," amen !
Putting our trust in God and depending on his intrinsic goodness frees us from the need to find explanations for everything. (Retief, Frank)
As I questioned in the other thread, why is this perceived as only possible through the Christian God. Do not other individuals in other religions and non-religions treat others with love and decency?
A good exposition, DRob4JC, but there are two things you should consider: "the wages of sin" are not a punishment meted out by an angry God, but the consequences of selfish, thoughtless actions that are bad for the person in the long run, and Jesus spoke in a metaphor that was shocking to his audience, quite possibly expecting a lot to reject the surface meaning without giving thought to the spiritual or metaphoric meaning. Agreed that the disciples who stayed didn't understand either, but He was not actually requiring a barbaric practice. Let's hope that our requirements are understand able and not barbaric whether God's ways are hidden at times or not.
Wages are not usually given as punishment, but what is due. Not sure emotion of anger is always involved here. Consequences are also part of the deal.
Jesus spoke symbolically. He was performing the "practice" Himself. We take communion to symbolize His death... we are partaking (eating) of His body and blood on the cross. Those are His terms.
Matthew 26:26-28 - While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body." 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
1 Corinthians 11:23-26 - For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.
Jesus spoke symbolically. He was performing the "practice" Himself. We take communion to symbolize His death... we are partaking (eating) of His body and blood on the cross. Those are His terms.
That is just a ceremony. IMO Jesus was talking about the idea that He embodies "The Way" and participating in that Way is symbolized in His statement.
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Putting our trust in God and depending on his intrinsic goodness frees us from the need to find explanations for everything. (Retief, Frank)
