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No, no...if you do your research you'll see that they never left Judaism and Gentiles that wanted to join the Christian sect had to convert to Judaism....Sooo....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
It would not be the religion that rejected him, but the people...As I said, the Jewish people did not reject him As the early church was primarily Jewish with Gentiles converting to Judaism in order to join the Christian sect...
No, Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be Christians. This issue was addressed and rejected at the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15). There were some men from Judea, but without the sanction of the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:24) who had come to Antioch and were falsely teaching that you couldn't be saved unless you were circumcised according to the custom of Moses and observed the law of Moses (Acts 15:1,5).
As a result, the church at Antioch sent Paul and Barnabas, as well as other believers who would be witnesses, to Jerusalem to debate the issue. The other apostles were there as well. Peter asked why the Judaizers were putting God to the test by putting a yoke (the Mosaic Law) upon the neck of the disciples ''which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear.'' (Acts 15:10). Peter then stated that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace (Acts 15:11).
As I. Howard Marshall puts it,
''In principle the need for Gentle Christians to accept the Jewish law was firmly rejected, and it was recognized that faith in Jesus was the sole condition for the reception of salvation and entry into the people of God.''
Acts, I. Howard Marshall, p. 262.
Paul also addressed this issue in his letter to the Galatians, many of whom had, or were considering placing themselves back under the law (Gal. 4:21) and subjecting themselves again to a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1).
No, the statement that ''Gentiles that wanted to join the Christian sect had to convert to Judaism'' is absolutely false and was soundly rejected by the apostles. It is true that in the early church many Jewish Christians continued to keep the law, but this was done, not as a requirement, which it wasn't, but as a matter of custom and habit.
No, Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be Christians. This issue was addressed and rejected at the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15). There were some men from Judea, but without the sanction of the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:24) who had come to Antioch and were falsely teaching that you couldn't be saved unless you were circumcised according to the custom of Moses and observed the law of Moses (Acts 15:1,5).
As a result, the church at Antioch sent Paul and Barnabas, as well as other believers who would be witnesses, to Jerusalem to debate the issue. The other apostles were there as well. Peter asked why the Judaizers were putting God to the test by putting a yoke (the Mosaic Law) upon the neck of the disciples ''which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear.'' (Acts 15:10). Peter then stated that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace (Acts 15:11).
As I. Howard Marshall puts it,
''In principle the need for Gentle Christians to accept the Jewish law was firmly rejected, and it was recognized that faith in Jesus was the sole condition for the reception of salvation and entry into the people of God.''
Acts, I. Howard Marshall, p. 262.
Paul also addressed this issue in his letter to the Galatians, many of whom had, or were considering placing themselves back under the law (Gal. 4:21) and subjecting themselves again to a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1).
No, the statement that ''Gentiles that wanted to join the Christian sect had to convert to Judaism'' is absolutely false and was soundly rejected by the apostles. It is true that in the early church many Jewish Christians continued to keep the law, but this was done, not as a requirement, which it wasn't, but as a matter of custom and habit.
Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism and all the fathers of Christianity practiced Judaism, they continued to practice the laws of Moses decades after Jesus died and even Paul was making sacrifices under HIS Authority, the priests in Judaism and Paul came under attack because of lies and rumors floating around that Paul was teaching Jews to abandon the laws of Moses. Paul proved his innocence to HIS OWN authority, the priests of Judaism. Those tens of thousands of Jews, those Pharisees, they didn't stop being Jews and Pharisees.
If you want to completely separate yourself from Paul and his religion, you have, but don't act as if Paul ever stopped keeping the law or that any of those first members left Judaism because they did not.
Big deal, you don't keep the laws, Paul did and all the Jews who believed in Christ became even more zealous in keeping the law.
Acts 21
Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every
one of them.
No, Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be Christians. This issue was addressed and rejected at the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15). There were some men from Judea, but without the sanction of the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:24) who had come to Antioch and were falsely teaching that you couldn't be saved unless you were circumcised according to the custom of Moses and observed the law of Moses (Acts 15:1,5).
As a result, the church at Antioch sent Paul and Barnabas, as well as other believers who would be witnesses, to Jerusalem to debate the issue. The other apostles were there as well. Peter asked why the Judaizers were putting God to the test by putting a yoke (the Mosaic Law) upon the neck of the disciples ''which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear.'' (Acts 15:10). Peter then stated that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace (Acts 15:11).
As I. Howard Marshall puts it,
''In principle the need for Gentle Christians to accept the Jewish law was firmly rejected, and it was recognized that faith in Jesus was the sole condition for the reception of salvation and entry into the people of God.''
Acts, I. Howard Marshall, p. 262.
Paul also addressed this issue in his letter to the Galatians, many of whom had, or were considering placing themselves back under the law (Gal. 4:21) and subjecting themselves again to a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1).
No, the statement that ''Gentiles that wanted to join the Christian sect had to convert to Judaism'' is absolutely false and was soundly rejected by the apostles. It is true that in the early church many Jewish Christians continued to keep the law, but this was done, not as a requirement, which it wasn't, but as a matter of custom and habit.
No, Mike, you're wrong...There is actually historical proof that contradicts your assertions....Why are you so dishonest?...
Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism and all the fathers of Christianity practiced Judaism, they continued to practice the laws of Moses decades after Jesus died and even Paul was making sacrifices under HIS Authority, the priests in Judaism and Paul came under attack because of lies and rumors floating around that Paul was teaching Jews to abandon the laws of Moses. Paul proved his innocence to HIS OWN authority, the priests of Judaism. Those tens of thousands of Jews, those Pharisees, they didn't stop being Jews and Pharisees.
If you want to completely separate yourself from Paul and his religion, you have, but don't act as if Paul ever stopped keeping the law or that any of those first members left Judaism because they did not.
Big deal, you don't keep the laws, Paul did and all the Jews who believed in Christ became even more zealous in keeping the law.
Acts 21
Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every
one of them.
Is Paul some kind of crazy two faced wacko?
Sacrificing under the authorities of Judaism?
Mike practices a false religion...i.e., one is no longer responsible for one's sins...OSAS...He is of the Lawless set...
No, Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be Christians. This issue was addressed and rejected at the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15). There were some men from Judea, but without the sanction of the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:24) who had come to Antioch and were falsely teaching that you couldn't be saved unless you were circumcised according to the custom of Moses and observed the law of Moses (Acts 15:1,5).
As a result, the church at Antioch sent Paul and Barnabas, as well as other believers who would be witnesses, to Jerusalem to debate the issue. The other apostles were there as well. Peter asked why the Judaizers were putting God to the test by putting a yoke (the Mosaic Law) upon the neck of the disciples ''which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear.'' (Acts 15:10). Peter then stated that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace (Acts 15:11).
As I. Howard Marshall puts it,
''In principle the need for Gentle Christians to accept the Jewish law was firmly rejected, and it was recognized that faith in Jesus was the sole condition for the reception of salvation and entry into the people of God.''
Acts, I. Howard Marshall, p. 262.
Paul also addressed this issue in his letter to the Galatians, many of whom had, or were considering placing themselves back under the law (Gal. 4:21) and subjecting themselves again to a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1).
No, the statement that ''Gentiles that wanted to join the Christian sect had to convert to Judaism'' is absolutely false and was soundly rejected by the apostles. It is true that in the early church many Jewish Christians continued to keep the law, but this was done, not as a requirement, which it wasn't, but as a matter of custom and habit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism and all the fathers of Christianity practiced Judaism, they continued to practice the laws of Moses decades after Jesus died and even Paul was making sacrifices under HIS Authority, the priests in Judaism and Paul came under attack because of lies and rumors floating around that Paul was teaching Jews to abandon the laws of Moses. Paul proved his innocence to HIS OWN authority, the priests of Judaism. Those tens of thousands of Jews, those Pharisees, they didn't stop being Jews and Pharisees.
If you want to completely separate yourself from Paul and his religion, you have, but don't act as if Paul ever stopped keeping the law or that any of those first members left Judaism because they did not.
Big deal, you don't keep the laws, Paul did and all the Jews who believed in Christ became even more zealous in keeping the law.
Acts 21
Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every
one of them.
Is Paul some kind of crazy two faced wacko?
Sacrificing under the authorities of Judaism?
As has been shown, there is no need for Christians to keep the law of Moses or adhere to the practices of Judaism. As stated, while many Jewish Christians continued to keep the law, it was out of habit and custom. Not because it was a requirement to do so. And, again, as shown, Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism in order to be Christians. As was further shown, Both Peter and Paul stated that those Christians who wanted to keep the law were placing themselves under a yoke of slavery.
As has been shown, there is no need for Christians to keep the law of Moses or adhere to the practices of Judaism. As stated, while many Jewish Christians continued to keep the law, it was out of habit and custom. Not because it was a requirement to do so. And, again, as shown, Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism in order to be Christians. As was further shown, Both Peter and Paul stated that those Christians who wanted to keep the law were placing themselves under a yoke of slavery.
No, Mike, you are wrong and you know it...You haven't shown anybody anything...The lies that you put out may work with those of a based education, but not with those that actually have questioned and researched...
No, Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be Christians. This issue was addressed and rejected at the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15). There were some men from Judea, but without the sanction of the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:24) who had come to Antioch and were falsely teaching that you couldn't be saved unless you were circumcised according to the custom of Moses and observed the law of Moses (Acts 15:1,5).
As a result, the church at Antioch sent Paul and Barnabas, as well as other believers who would be witnesses, to Jerusalem to debate the issue. The other apostles were there as well. Peter asked why the Judaizers were putting God to the test by putting a yoke (the Mosaic Law) upon the neck of the disciples ''which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear.'' (Acts 15:10). Peter then stated that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace (Acts 15:11).
As I. Howard Marshall puts it,
''In principle the need for Gentle Christians to accept the Jewish law was firmly rejected, and it was recognized that faith in Jesus was the sole condition for the reception of salvation and entry into the people of God.''
Acts, I. Howard Marshall, p. 262.
Paul also addressed this issue in his letter to the Galatians, many of whom had, or were considering placing themselves back under the law (Gal. 4:21) and subjecting themselves again to a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1).
No, the statement that ''Gentiles that wanted to join the Christian sect had to convert to Judaism'' is absolutely false and was soundly rejected by the apostles. It is true that in the early church many Jewish Christians continued to keep the law, but this was done, not as a requirement, which it wasn't, but as a matter of custom and habit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
No, Mike, you're wrong...There is actually historical proof that contradicts your assertions....Why are you so dishonest?...
My assertions? I directed you to what Paul and Peter said at the council of Jerusalem, and what Paul wrote to the Galatians. You can read can't you? You can comprehend what you read can't you? The teaching by the Judaizers that to be saved you had to keep the law of Moses was rejected by the apostles.
My assertions? I directed you to what Paul and Peter said at the council of Jerusalem, and what Paul wrote to the Galatians. You can read can't you? You can comprehend what you read can't you? The teaching by the Judaizers that to be saved you had to keep the law of Moses was rejected by the apostles.
Suppose Pail was wrong?...Suppose he lied?...Daniel is not a prophecy of end times...If you'd actually undertake a study of a side by side comparison of the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian edited version of the Hebrew Scriptures, you might end up with a lot of questions, however, you are afraid to...
As has been shown, there is no need for Christians to keep the law of Moses or adhere to the practices of Judaism. As stated, while many Jewish Christians continued to keep the law, it was out of habit and custom. Not because it was a requirement to do so. And, again, as shown, Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism in order to be Christians. As was further shown, Both Peter and Paul stated that those Christians who wanted to keep the law were placing themselves under a yoke of slavery.
That's why Christians and Jewish Christians are in two separate religions Mike.
Answer me this, '' When was the year that Christianity first stopped keeping the Jewish feasts?''
It is one thing to fail in keeping the laws like Passover, Shavuot and Sukkot, and it is another to create your own feast days taken from another religion.
If I told you that you have to get on a plane 3 times a year to travel to Jerusalem to keep the 3 main feasts in order to be saved, I would be a Judaiser.
Paul never meant for Christian gentiles to walk away from Judaism, Paul NEVER left Judaism.
Your religion is not the same as the first Christianity, Jesus didn't come teaching us to accept the days, ways, and traditions of Pagan dieties, Paul did not come teaching people to loath the religion of Christ.
Because you are so far separated from the religion of Christ today in all his worship system, it was not this way in the beginning.
What year was it when the first gentile Christians started abandoning the worship system of God?
125 A.D.?
325 A.D.?
How many decades did gentile Christians keep Jewish feasts before they accepted a new worship system?
If you have proven Paul as a liar, then tear out everything Paul says, and If Jesus says that keeping and teaching others to keep the laws of Moses will get you to be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, then who is right?
Paul or Jesus?
You are taking scripture from a church and worship system that you are no longer a part of Mike.
Quote any scripture you like, but remember that these were written to converts of Judaism who accepted Jesus as their Passover lamb and they kept the Passover in truth and in spirit, but that was when Christianity was still keeping the feasts of Jesus.
That's why Christians and Jewish Christians are in two separate religions Mike.
Answer me this, '' When was the year that Christianity first stopped keeping the Jewish feasts?''
It is one thing to fail in keeping the laws like Passover, Shavuot and Sukkot, and it is another to create your own feast days taken from another religion.
If I told you that you have to get on a plane 3 times a year to travel to Jerusalem to keep the 3 main feasts in order to be saved, I would be a Judaiser.
Paul never meant for Christian gentiles to walk away from Judaism, Paul NEVER left Judaism.
Your religion is not the same as the first Christianity, Jesus didn't come teaching us to accept the days, ways, and traditions of Pagan dieties, Paul did not come teaching people to loath the religion of Christ.
Because you are so far separated from the religion of Christ today in all his worship system, it was not this way in the beginning.
What year was it when the first gentile Christians started abandoning the worship system of God?
125 A.D.?
325 A.D.?
How many decades did gentile Christians keep Jewish feasts before they accepted a new worship system?
If you have proven Paul as a liar, then tear out everything Paul says, and If Jesus says that keeping and teaching others to keep the laws of Moses will get you to be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, then who is right?
Paul or Jesus?
You are taking scripture from a church and worship system that you are no longer a part of Mike.
Quote any scripture you like, but remember that these were written to converts of Judaism who accepted Jesus as their Passover lamb and they kept the Passover in truth and in spirit, but that was when Christianity was still keeping the feasts of Jesus.
Why would they keep the feasts of Jesus Mike?
Did they really believe that lamb stuff?
You are going to get buried in an avalanche of cut and paste opinion from other people...Are you ready for it?...
Seriously..
Good post, though...Christianity began as a reform sect of Judaism...
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