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That's why Christians and Jewish Christians are in two separate religions Mike.
Christianity is not a religion, but despite the denominational differences within Christianity, it is a relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ.
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Answer me this, '' When was the year that Christianity first stopped keeping the Jewish feasts?''
It is one thing to fail in keeping the laws like Passover, Shavuot and Sukkot, and it is another to create your own feast days taken from another religion.
And yet, you just announced your intention to start celebrating Jesus' birthday on Krishna Janmaashtami which is a holiday of the Hindu religion.
If I told you that you have to get on a plane 3 times a year to travel to Jerusalem to keep the 3 main feasts in order to be saved, I would be a Judaiser.
Paul never meant for Christian gentiles to walk away from Judaism, Paul NEVER left Judaism.
Your religion is not the same as the first Christianity, Jesus didn't come teaching us to accept the days, ways, and traditions of Pagan dieties, Paul did not come teaching people to loath the religion of Christ.
Because you are so far separated from the religion of Christ today in all his worship system, it was not this way in the beginning.
What year was it when the first gentile Christians started abandoning the worship system of God?
125 A.D.?
325 A.D.?
How many decades did gentile Christians keep Jewish feasts before they accepted a new worship system?
If you have proven Paul as a liar, then tear out everything Paul says, and If Jesus says that keeping and teaching others to keep the laws of Moses will get you to be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, then who is right?
Paul or Jesus?
In the same sentence you imply that Paul and Jesus are in agreement, and that they are in opposition.
Jesus was born, lived, died, and resurrected during the age of Israel when the Mosaic law was still in effect. With the beginning of the Church-age, the Mosaic law, which was given to the Jews, not to the Gentiles, is no longer in effect.
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You are taking scripture from a church and worship system that you are no longer a part of Mike.
Quote any scripture you like, but remember that these were written to converts of Judaism who accepted Jesus as their Passover lamb and they kept the Passover in truth and in spirit, but that was when Christianity was still keeping the feasts of Jesus.
Why would they keep the feasts of Jesus Mike?
Did they really believe that lamb stuff?
As I said, many of the Jewish Christians in the early church did continue to keep the practices of Judaism. But they did so out of habit and custom. Not as a requirement to be a Christian. Paul made it perfectly clear that Christians are not under the law, and that they do not have to follow the practices of Judaism.
The Galatians were mostly Gentiles. And to them Paul said that if they wanted to be under law (Gal. 4:21) they would be subjecting themselves again to a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1).
If you insist on being on enslaving yourself to the practices of Judaism, then do so. Just don't attempt to enslave others.
I choose the freedom that is in Christ Jesus.
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-22-2016 at 08:43 AM..
Christianity is not a religion, but despite the denominational differences within Christianity, it is a relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ.
And yet, you just announced your intention to start celebrating Jesus' birthday on Krishna Janmaashtami which is a holiday of the Hindu religion.
In the same sentence you imply that Paul and Jesus are in agreement, and that they are in opposition.
Jesus was born, lived, died, and resurrected during the age of Israel when the Mosaic law was still in effect. With the beginning of the Church-age, the Mosaic law, which was given to the Jews, not to the Gentiles, is no longer in effect.
As I said, many of the Jewish Christians in the early church did continue to keep the practices of Judaism. But they did so out of habit and custom. Not as a requirement to be a Christian. Paul made it perfectly clear that Christians are not under the law, and that they do not have to follow the practices of Judaism.
The Galatians were mostly Gentiles. And to them Paul said that if they wanted to be under law (Gal. 4:21) they would be subjecting themselves again to a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1).
If you insist on being on enslaving yourself to the practices of Judaism, then do so. Just don't attempt to enslave others.
As I said, Jesus was born, lived, died, and rose in the age of Israel which is a different dispensation than the Church age in which we now live. Jesus fulfilled the law, and He was the only one who could keep the law perfectly. No one else was able to. But the law of Moses was set aside at the cross. The Mosaic Law was given to Israel alone. It was not given to the Church. The perfect righteousness which is required for eternal life cannot be attained by attempting to keep the law of Moses. It can only be attained by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5] For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6]But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Gal. 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.26] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Mosaic Law pointed to Jesus. Jesus came. We are therefore not under the tutor which is the Law of Moses. We are released from the Law. If you won't believe Paul, then that's on you and you can choose to remain enslaved to the law. Personally, I prefer the freedom which is in Christ Jesus.
As I said, Jesus was born, lived, died, and rose in the age of Israel which is a different dispensation than the Church age in which we now live. Jesus fulfilled the law, and He was the only one who could keep the law perfectly. No one else was able to. But the law of Moses was set aside at the cross. The Mosaic Law was given to Israel alone. It was not given to the Church. The perfect righteousness which is required for eternal life cannot be attained by attempting to keep the law of Moses. It can only be attained by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5] For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6]But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Gal. 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.26] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Mosaic Law pointed to Jesus. Jesus came. We are therefore not under the tutor which is the Law of Moses. We are released from the Law. If you won't believe Paul, then that's on you and you can choose to remain enslaved to the law. Personally, I prefer the freedom which is in Christ Jesus.
You can put away the laws of Moses, Just don't ever quote Revelation or a parable of Jesus and think to teach on it because knowing the law in and out is the only way to understand those things but people who don't know the law will still come and argue things of the law, and how do you argue things of the law if you do not know the law?
If that sounds rude Mike, I don't mean it that way, I am just saying that the freedom of salvation is beautiful yet very broad, and even the lawbreakers are saved and so they should go their way, and let them not care to study it at all, but should they be teaching on things they do not know?
Every time somebody quotes a parable or something from Revelation and they don't know the laws and the feasts in and out, they are only pretending that they know what is hidden from them when they have absolutely no chance to understand a parable without the knowledge of the feasts and the laws.
There are no parables of Jesus that do not pertain to the feasts and the law, NOT ONE.
And so while a person may have his salvation, Jesus will still come and say,'' Depart from me, I never knew you lawbreakers.''
They are sent to the outer court, and anyone who knows the design and comings and goings of the temple knows that the court is not a part of the temple proper and to be standing in the court with your salvation simply means that you did not become Israel.
Still saved, but salvation is for suckers and to be found in the outer court as you watch people enter into the bridal chamber would suck.
Speaking the language of Jesus is a very personal thing between you and he and there are not very many Christians who speak the language simply because they do not know the feasts and the laws.
Just saying,'' You got your salvation,'' but there is so much more and salvation is the last rung on a 3 step ladder.''
Try and name any parable that doesn't concern the feasts and the law, and I will show you that it does, that is, the ones I understand. There are still a couple I haven't figured out.
You can put away the laws of Moses, Just don't ever quote Revelation or a parable of Jesus and think to teach on it because knowing the law in and out is the only way to understand those things but people who don't know the law will still come and argue things of the law, and how do you argue things of the law if you do not know the law?
If that sounds rude Mike, I don't mean it that way, I am just saying that the freedom of salvation is beautiful yet very broad, and even the lawbreakers are saved and so they should go their way, and let them not care to study it at all, but should they be teaching on things they do not know?
Every time somebody quotes a parable or something from Revelation and they don't know the laws and the feasts in and out, they are only pretending that they know what is hidden from them when they have absolutely no chance to understand a parable without the knowledge of the feasts and the laws.
There are no parables of Jesus that do not pertain to the feasts and the law, NOT ONE.
And so while a person may have his salvation, Jesus will still come and say,'' Depart from me, I never knew you lawbreakers.''
They are sent to the outer court, and anyone who knows the design and comings and goings of the temple knows that the court is not a part of the temple proper and to be standing in the court with your salvation simply means that you did not become Israel.
Still saved, but salvation is for suckers and to be found in the outer court as you watch people enter into the bridal chamber would suck.
Speaking the language of Jesus is a very personal thing between you and he and there are not very many Christians who speak the language simply because they do not know the feasts and the laws.
Just saying,'' You got your salvation,'' but there is so much more and salvation is the last rung on a 3 step ladder.''
Try and name any parable that doesn't concern the feasts and the law, and I will show you that it does, that is, the ones I understand. There are still a couple I haven't figured out.
I don't agree with you about that either. It is not necessary to keep or know the Mosaic Law inside and out in order to understand the Book of Revelation. One does however have to be familiar with certain Old Testament books. Nor does a Church-age believer's eternal blessings depend on understanding or keeping the Mosaic law. If the believer is growing in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus (and that doesn't mean knowing the Mosaic Law; well, to an extent. For example, the believer should understand that the Levitical animal sacrifices were types of Jesus' sacrificial work on the cross.), and if the believer is logging a maximum amount of time in fellowship and producing good works which are acceptable to God, then he will receive eternal rewards.
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-22-2016 at 03:03 PM..
It is not necessary to keep or know the Mosaic Law inside and out in order to understand the Book of Revelation. One does however have to understand the Old Testament prophecies. Nor does a Church-age believer's eternal blessings depend on understanding or keeping the Mosaic law. If the believer is growing in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus, and if the believer is logging a maximum amount of time in fellowship and producing good works which are acceptable to God, then he will receive eternal rewards.
Mike, Revelation is simply the fall festivals taking place and not only do you have to know and keep the fall festivals to get a clue, You have to strive to know and understand every single thing that is said and done on the fall feast days.
But if you don't know the law or the feast days, you might just say that it has nothing to do with the laws and feast days because you do not know the laws and the feast days.
You have to know and understand Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot and Shemini Atzeret before you should ever open Revelation and not only do you have to know the laws and feasts, you have to study the Talmud to know what is said and done on those feast days, appointed prayers and everything a priest is doing on the fall Holy days.
What day is it and what does it mean if there is 30 min of silence in heaven?
What has just taken place?
Mike, you can't name a chapter in Revelation that I cannot show you the laws, traditions, rituals, that is all it is Mike.
Do you really want to learn Revelation?
Hit me up in direct Message and we can talk about it in length and I believe you would be extremely surprised at just how much Revelation pertains to the feast days and the laws.
You can't name a chapter in Revelation that I can't put an exact date on because of the Torah cycle Mike.
Exact prayers and scriptures appointed for exact days as Jesus followed.
Pick a parable and the feasts are in all of them.
The sower
The wheat and tares
The mustard seed
The leaven
This is the barley harvest, the wheat harvest and the fruit harvest, and the 4th shows all these 3 as one, in one person and that is what the kingdom of heaven is,'' YOU.''
Every time you have mentioned the sower or the wheat and the tares, you are talking about something that you admittedly don't even want to know and yet we will see Mike teaching about Jewish feast days all the time.
How do you really show a person how the afikomen is buried, and how a lamb is eaten and all the little traditions that pointed to Jesus unless you actually knew what you were talking about?
What do you say to a person that you have just converted to Christianity when you try and explain how Jesus can be his Passover lamb, and then he asks you why you then would tell him not to keep the Passover?
How do you explain to a would be bride about her betrothal, her consummation, her wedding banquet, her honeymoon TO JESUS without explaining the fall Holy days?
What day is appointed for us to become legally married to Christ?
What day is appointed for us to enter into a bridal chamber to consummate our marriage with Christ?
What day is appointed for our wedding banquet with Christ?
What day is appointed for the bride of Christ to receive a double portion of spirit from Christ?
Would you convert a person to Christ and tell him to reject all the things you had him hoping in?
To reject the wedding, to reject the consummation?
Most of those brides are going to try and enter that bridal chamber only to find that they have been locked out because they had not prepared and how could somebody prepare unless they had instruction in what to do?
God has 8 visitation days appointed to man, and if a man does not know his appointed visitation days, then WOE IS HE.
Mike, whether you know it or not, you are talking about the Jewish feast days every day, you just don't know it because you don't know the feast days.
Dude, What if Shemini Atzeret happens this very year, and there is much talk going on in Jerusalem with two of the most important and respected rabbis in Judaism who actually believe the messiah will come this year and they don't go around making dates like Christians do, but what if this is the year of Shemini Atzeret?
There is absolutely no way of you obtaining that prize should it come this year, and why would you separate yourself from the most desired gift in all the bible?
When Pentecost fell, the world kept on turning just like the Pentecost of the fall will be.
How sad would it be for you to miss out on the greatest prize of all?
I don't understand people who do not want what is offered.
Nope...Daniel has nothing to do with This far into the future...I said that the Jews know the Scriptures better than non-Jews...Matthew has nothing to do with the Tanakh...If the Hebrew Scriptures are wrong, then your Christianity is wrong...
The ot is correct for the most part--Daniel is 100% for sure speaking of these last days.= Now
Mike, Revelation is simply the fall festivals taking place and not only do you have to know and keep the fall festivals to get a clue, You have to strive to know and understand every single thing that is said and done on the fall feast days.
But if you don't know the law or the feast days, you might just say that it has nothing to do with the laws and feast days because you do not know the laws and the feast days.
You have to know and understand Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot and Shemini Atzeret before you should ever open Revelation and not only do you have to know the laws and feasts, you have to study the Talmud to know what is said and done on those feast days, appointed prayers and everything a priest is doing on the fall Holy days.
What day is it and what does it mean if there is 30 min of silence in heaven?
What has just taken place?
Mike, you can't name a chapter in Revelation that I cannot show you the laws, traditions, rituals, that is all it is Mike.
Do you really want to learn Revelation?
Hit me up in direct Message and we can talk about it in length and I believe you would be extremely surprised at just how much Revelation pertains to the feast days and the laws.
You can't name a chapter in Revelation that I can't put an exact date on because of the Torah cycle Mike.
Exact prayers and scriptures appointed for exact days as Jesus followed.
Pick a parable and the feasts are in all of them.
The sower
The wheat and tares
The mustard seed
The leaven
This is the barley harvest, the wheat harvest and the fruit harvest, and the 4th shows all these 3 as one, in one person and that is what the kingdom of heaven is,'' YOU.''
Every time you have mentioned the sower or the wheat and the tares, you are talking about something that you admittedly don't even want to know and yet we will see Mike teaching about Jewish feast days all the time.
How do you really show a person how the afikomen is buried, and how a lamb is eaten and all the little traditions that pointed to Jesus unless you actually knew what you were talking about?
What do you say to a person that you have just converted to Christianity when you try and explain how Jesus can be his Passover lamb, and then he asks you why you then would tell him not to keep the Passover?
How do you explain to a would be bride about her betrothal, her consummation, her wedding banquet, her honeymoon TO JESUS without explaining the fall Holy days?
What day is appointed for us to become legally married to Christ?
What day is appointed for us to enter into a bridal chamber to consummate our marriage with Christ?
What day is appointed for our wedding banquet with Christ?
What day is appointed for the bride of Christ to receive a double portion of spirit from Christ?
Would you convert a person to Christ and tell him to reject all the things you had him hoping in?
To reject the wedding, to reject the consummation?
Most of those brides are going to try and enter that bridal chamber only to find that they have been locked out because they had not prepared and how could somebody prepare unless they had instruction in what to do?
God has 8 visitation days appointed to man, and if a man does not know his appointed visitation days, then WOE IS HE.
Mike, whether you know it or not, you are talking about the Jewish feast days every day, you just don't know it because you don't know the feast days.
Dude, What if Shemini Atzeret happens this very year, and there is much talk going on in Jerusalem with two of the most important and respected rabbis in Judaism who actually believe the messiah will come this year and they don't go around making dates like Christians do, but what if this is the year of Shemini Atzeret?
There is absolutely no way of you obtaining that prize should it come this year, and why would you separate yourself from the most desired gift in all the bible?
When Pentecost fell, the world kept on turning just like the Pentecost of the fall will be.
How sad would it be for you to miss out on the greatest prize of all?
I don't understand people who do not want what is offered.
Hannibal, I understand the Book of Revelation quite well and I'm not in need of your interpretation and allegorizations of it, or of your claimed requirements for understanding that book. And it absolutely is not necessary to study the Jewish Talmud which is not even inspired scripture.
First of all, I hold to the futuristic view of Revelation. Quite simply, without going into great detail, Chapters 2-3 pertain to the present Church-age. Chapters 4-19 deal with God's judgments on Israel and the unbelieving Gentile nations of the world. The various judgments are laid out quite well. The Church will not be on the earth during the Tribulation (I hold to the pre-Tribulational view of the rapture). No Church-age believer need worry about being left behind to endure the judgments of the Tribulation. Chapters 20 -22 deal with events following the Tribulation and into the new heavens and earth.
And no, neither you or anyone else can put an exact date on any of the events of Revelation, and anyone who thinks they can has no credibility whatsoever.
Furthermore, I don't recall ever having mentioned the sower and the wheat and the tares in any conversation with you, nor have I ever admitted to not wanting to know about them.
Hannibal, I understand the Book of Revelation quite well and I'm not in need of your interpretation and allegorizations of it, or of your claimed requirements for understanding that book. And it absolutely is not necessary to study the Jewish Talmud which is not even inspired scripture.
First of all, I hold to the futuristic view of Revelation. Quite simply, without going into great detail, Chapters 2-3 pertain to the present Church-age. Chapters 4-19 deal with God's judgments on Israel and the unbelieving Gentile nations of the world. The various judgments are laid out quite well. The Church will not be on the earth during the Tribulation (I hold to the pre-Tribulational view of the rapture). No Church-age believer need worry about being left behind to endure the judgments of the Tribulation. Chapters 20 -22 deal with events following the Tribulation and into the new heavens and earth.
And no, neither you or anyone else can put an exact date on any of the events of Revelation, and anyone who thinks they can has no credibility whatsoever.
Furthermore, I don't recall ever having mentioned the sower and the wheat and the tares in any conversation with you, nor have I ever admitted to not wanting to know about them.
So if I began to ask you questions about Revelation, you will help me?
LOL, Revelation is about the fall Holy days and just because you don't know that doesn't unravel it.
It's like people who don't know what it means to receive a mark in your forehead and right hand every year, and they will make up some crazy idea when it is the most ancient and most practiced tradition in Judaism, but if you don't know the law, you just make stuff up about Revelation, if you don't know that you are reading about Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, the feast of Tabernacles, and Shemini Atzeret, you should get a clue mike.
The wine harvest is not something you just make up because you don't know anything about the wine harvest.
I can see you quoting Revelation trying to act like the grape harvest could be just anytime, and it can be just anything Mike, but it is set in thousands of years of people practicing it in all it's prayers and tradition and suddenly you come along and it means something else now?
When the trumpets are blowing on the feast of trumpets in Revelation, are you going to say it isn't Rosh Hashanah?
When people are being sealed in their forehead EVERY SINGLE YEAR for Yom Kippur, suddenly you are gonna come up and say,'' No, People don't get marked in their foreheads against Yom Kippur?''
Just because you do not know the worship system of Jesus and his ways, it aint gonna change Mike.
The feasts are set in stone for exact days and just like the wheat and the tares, you going to say it's not the wheat harvest, or the sower is not the barley harvest?
You understand Revelation completely and you don't know it is about the fall Holy days?
Why?
Because you don't know the worship system of Jesus, and that's ok Mike, but teaching Revelation is not something a person should take lightly and there is a clear warning about this in the book itself.
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